I think the question of whether you had a choice in being born raises the question of whether you existed before birth. If you had, then why don't you remember anything about it? Or, how do you know you weren't asked before you were born? Perhaps we're all egos floating around in some immaterial plane and God does come to you and ask if you want to 'play the game.' In this (admittedly strange and far-fetched) case, you surely wouldn't want to remember God coming up and asking you such a thing, because then you wouldn't have a choice: you must rationally believe in God's existence because, well, you still remember talking to God before you were ever born. In a more likely case, I doubt we existed before we were individually created, and I don't see how asserting a non-existent will can work (I feel like I poorly articulated this idea, but I hope you were still able to follow it).

I still don't understand why you're fixated on the idea that you either have to believe or not. I tend to be inclined to believe that God exists, but before that all I cared about was living and loving. Whether that was because I was created by some supreme being for that purpose, or I was merely a product of random chance for no purpose, I was going to do me and let the chips fall where they may. I just don't see why you feel you are forced to go one way or the other. If you entirely accept that God exists, then that is very silly and closed minded. If you entirely reject God's existence, well, that is the exact same thing. Why can't you say "Whether God exists or not, in the end all I care about is love/prosperity/whatever it is you want to do." I don't see why that's impossible to do.

Who is saying that, and why do you feel so adamantly that you have to obey them?

Then you should have titled this thread "God doesn't need a purpose."

What if God's purpose for you is for you to ultimately do whatever the hell you want? What about creating something because you think you have something special to share? Don't you mean when you create something? I suppose you could take that a step further and say when people create something, but God is not a person. Stress and distraction are human characteristics that have no meaning when you try and append them to a being that is omnipotent and fully fulfilled within themselves.

I have no idea. I am analyzing the question I pose. The implications of the question are quite simple. If god has a purpose then there is a requirement or need perhaps even lack that god experiences. If god doesn't have a purpose then all things are haphazard which is a parallel to the universe not having any intelligence behind it. So which is it?

I am not making a claim that god has a purpose.

Reference previous paragraph.

I don't mean this disrepectfully, but I don't believe you.

Surely you have some inclination as to why you posed the question...

And that is totally fine, but it doesn't answer the question of why you posed the question.

-ITL-

I think if a God did create us, then he must have done so because he wanted to.

If he was really apathetic about his creation, then why would he bother to create us?

So I think God takes pleasure in his creation? And he just enjoys creating?

Maybe that is his purpose? And he sits backs and just enjoys watching his creations live and exist?

But for the issue of an afterlife, perhaps if a God really enjoys his creations, maybe then he might want the company of his creations in the metaphysical realm where he dwells.

So yeah. That's my view.

Why do you think that God created us?

Just curious.

-ITL-

krumple,
i would answer much the same way as aphoric has, with a little elaboration.

i think you are being too influenced with the god-word baggage from the old days. belief in god doesnt mean that you have to believe in good and bad or right and wrong necessarily. it doesnt mean that you are bound to fight injustice etc. actually it doesnt mean anything at all.. so you are saying you want a third choice. what would it be? be undecided? that is agnosticism, and you are free to do that also.

now if you want to believe everything happened by accident, fine-you still had no choice. so what is the difference if you believe in god or not? same thing if you are undecided and refuse to take sides as to whether there is or is not a god. so in all three scenarios, you had no choice in being born. unless of course as aphoric suggested, you did in ffact have a choice and were asked by god. so in other words, the only way to make it possible for you to have ever had free will is to believe in god.

how's that?

---------- Post added 11-23-2009 at 01:44 PM ----------

oh, and about purpose...god may have a purpose in what he is doing, but that doesnt mean that he made one up for you as well. i had a reason for wanting to have a son but i did not give him a reason to live. i wish i could have asked him before he was born if he wanted to be born, but that was impossible. maybe it was impossible for god as well.

__________________
"The idea is to die young as late as possible."....Ashley Montagu

I'm agnostic. I'm neither a theist or a atheist. I believe it's daft to assume that God exists is fact or that God doesn't exist is fact.

I just think that if there is a God that 'kick-started' everything then he must have done so because he wanted to create, otherwise, why would he bother?

Interesting and potentially damning to this discussion....

Make up your mind, man.

First you say that you don't know if a "God" exists.

However, then you turn around and come up with all these characteristics that you attribute to God.

For example:

-God is a "He'
- God "kick-started everything"
- God's motivation for "creating" the world

I'm interested in how exactly you can make up attributes for "God" and then turn around and say that you don't know if it exists or not.

-ITL-

I have told you why I asked the question. I have pointed out all motivation. This press is starting to seem like trollism.

You even requested earlier that I NOT give my reason for asking the question and now you request that I do?



---------- Post added 11-23-2009 at 01:32 AM ----------

Must? I don't this it is that clear, at least not to me.

Could it be unintentional? A day dream? A misplaced thought? In boredom if you knew every single event that would happen, could you take a moment and wipe your ability to know? To play a chance game? A what if scenario? Maybe creation is to appeal to the ego that god has.

What is so good about being god if you can't do anything about it?

who said it would be good to be god? it's bad enough being human, i am glad i am not a god!

__________________
"The idea is to die young as late as possible."....Ashley Montagu