If I may interject, what do you guys mean when you use the word "perfect" here? What does, "God is perfect", even mean?

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That God can do nothing wrong. And that God has no defects.

So the revelations does not give us any clues to what might happen to those who dont obey gods laws. No where in the bible, old or new, do we see threats of hell fire or refusal to enter heaven if we dont act accordingly to gods teachings.

Then he can't be both omnipotent and perfect, right? These terms must be mutually exclusive, because, if he were omnipotent, he could also do what was wrong, as he could do anything. Also, wouldn't God have everything, including defects?

Something doesn't seem right here.

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No. Omnipotence does not include doing what it is not in God's nature to do, and no, why would a perfect or omnipotent God have defects? It would be contradictory for Him to be perfect and have defects.

I'm confused xris, for a moment there I thought you were talking about how God expects us to be "perfect".

But now you're talking about eschatology and about 'teachings'. Please clarify for me how these examples you cite support your as yet baseless idea that God is asking for PERFECTION.

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"How you get so big eating food of this kind?" -Yoda

What is "God's nature"?

Are you saying an omnipotent God cannot do everything; that is, he can only do those things which are "in his nature"? Wouldn't that be contradictory to the whole omnipotent thing?

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If he requires us to try and maintain his laws then he has expectations. If he new we would fail because of our imperfections, then the exercise is pointless. What in your opinion is failure and what is success? He may not judge us as perfect but he expects us to overcome our imperfections.

How can you judge anything that is not perfect? To point to an individual that may have caused millions to die by his failings, do you blame him for his imperfections or the god who claims his creation.

Your mind set is strangely earth bound in its logic of this god the creator. Why do you think he made us imperfect? This is the logic of all described gods, not just your selected biblical examples.

---------- Post added 11-09-2009 at 02:15 PM ----------

The described god has certain characteristics if you wish to describe him differently then its up to you to give us a credible description to debate. You cant suddenly change his appearance or make him a foggy indistinct figure.

What has this to do with the contradiction I'm pointing out?

If God is omnipotent (I'm using a certain, common characteristic of God, am I not?), he should be able to do everything, mistakes included, right?

Where did you get the impression I'm making God a "foggy indistinct figure"? I was using the terms give to me; I was describing him as he's traditionally described!





(As if these metaphysical properties are all really clear and distinct, though...

but that's another thread.)

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So your saying the accepted description of god is a schizophrenic fool? Could you tell me if this is just your opinion or the claimed opinion of the faiths.