The Limits of our Society

[Reconstructo]

Originally Posted by dharma_bum

You could say to make lives better, but then why is most technology of a military or consumerist nature?

It's like we're trying to solve all of Earth's problems with inventions instead of ideas or changes in lifestyle.

I agree that humans have a lot to gain from looking inward. But much of our technology has made the comfort and food-supply possible for contemplation in the first place. A group greedy but well fed men might wage war. A group of starving man will almost definitely wage war, if they have any chance at all. Science has fed us and kept our babies alive.

Another problem. Any country that stops will be surpassed by other countries. The system is a bit out of control perhaps, but it's the journey, they say, and not the destination. These are strange times, I suppose. But we might as well affirm them, as they might be all we have.

[Fido]

Originally Posted by dharma_bum

To where is scientific progress supposed to lead us?

Technologically speaking, we have more now than we could possibly ever want. Why are we still trying to progress and grow and expand? What is the purpose of technology? You could say to make lives better, but then why is most technology of a military or consumerist nature?

My question is, what are we ever going to do with all the unnecessary science we have at our disposal?

It's like we're trying to solve all of Earth's problems with inventions instead of ideas or changes in lifestyle.

I propose that society has nowhere to move but back. We will eventually realize that there is nothing more to discover, see, hear, taste, feel, and our only course of action is to take a step back and adopt simpler lifestyles. I hope.

Generally science is about making numbers meaningless... When one can kill a billion there is no limit to the slavery people can be forced to endure...We cannot change what is natural to us, so we change forms/ideas in order to change what we can change...It is through changes in forms, forms of dwelling, forms of production, forms of sustenance, forms of government; all forms of relationship that humanity progresses by... A move from cave to dungeon, from tent to cabin also represented a new understanding of nature as well as an improvement on it...Science is a part of that understanding, and the creation a new reality is made possible through these forms, including science...But these changes of forms wait on a change of perspective, and that waits on the natural conservatism of people to be overcome with the need to change... Some people never get it... When something does not work for the intelligent, they try to change something... Life is an intelligence test after all...

---------- Post added 12-17-2009 at 05:58 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Reconstructo

I agree that humans have a lot to gain from looking inward. But much of our technology has made the comfort and food-supply possible for contemplation in the first place. A group greedy but well fed men might wage war. A group of starving man will almost definitely wage war, if they have any chance at all. Science has fed us and kept our babies alive.

Another problem. Any country that stops will be surpassed by other countries. The system is a bit out of control perhaps, but it's the journey, they say, and not the destination. These are strange times, I suppose. But we might as well affirm them, as they might be all we have.

History is the class struggle, but that is often played out internationally...

[Reconstructo]

Originally Posted by Fido

History is the class struggle, but that is often played out internationally...

True, but it's not only that. It's presumably bigger than any single perspective.

[pantheras]

Originally Posted by dharma_bum

My question is, what are we ever going to do with all the unnecessary science we have at our disposal?

I think that the answer is - we have to figure it out.

This technological evolution accelerates human evolution itself, because human have to think about himself more into deep. It is like when we figured out how to use fire and sharp rock on the stick...

If you look at the past this way, you will see it as a necessary tool, so these apes in the past used something to get and learn other thing. Imagine what will think about us people which will live in the far future - Indeed, there was people which were worried about stuff they invented, but this stuff learned them to think about it, otherwise they could not think about themselves at all.

I suppose that people dont have to get technological progress like something which will be harmful for them even if so at the beginning. It is just part of their evolution and will force them to evolve into something more in the future.

[xris]

I dont think technology is going too fast, I think humanity is not keeping up ethically. We always abuse technology, till we realise it can do more good than harm. I'm afraid many advances have been made through the desire to win a particular war. Even the cold war had certain advantages from the technology that was used.

[biscuithead175]

Originally Posted by dharma_bum

To where is scientific progress supposed to lead us?

Technologically speaking, we have more now than we could possibly ever want. Why are we still trying to progress and grow and expand? What is the purpose of technology? You could say to make lives better, but then why is most technology of a military or consumerist nature?

My question is, what are we ever going to do with all the unnecessary science we have at our disposal?

It's like we're trying to solve all of Earth's problems with inventions instead of ideas or changes in lifestyle.

I propose that society has nowhere to move but back. We will eventually realize that there is nothing more to discover, see, hear, taste, feel, and our only course of action is to take a step back and adopt simpler lifestyles. I hope.

I completely agree with you! While we spend so much time trying to move forward, we don't relish in things that we already naturally have. Our society focuses so much on the longevity of our lives, but the quality of the lives most of us live are definitely not (gee, I wonder why ever 3 seconds someone wants to leave this world). We try to change everything on the outside, but never look into ourselves to solve these issues. Instead of finding a universal meaning of life, there should be more of an emphasis on how we can make this life worth living for each one of us as individuals. There are too many standards that many people don't live up to, and that causes most of the pain and suffering we see on a daily basis. I'm not saying that having order and standards are a bad thing, but you can't have everything. Its a give and take. Moving backwards is probably the only way we will ever see a true change in our society.

[Fido]

Originally Posted by Reconstructo

True, but it's not only that. It's presumably bigger than any single perspective.

If you can discover what a thing is, perspective has no effect on that...If it looks like something else from another perspective it usually is something else...I am caused to think of boxes and other art from West coast natives, where animals are represented whole on each side...If the object was a bear, or an orca, the side might have a full profile, and the front view might show the face and appendages, and ditto for the back, showing a rear view with appendages...It is as though they could only conceive of the animal whole, but in trying to show the animal whole produced five images of the same animal on a single box...We have a more difficult task than they...We look at society as a social form through the perspective of infinite forms like justice or freedom or virtue, or morality...Perhaps the best we can capture is a certain sense of the thing/non thing...

[Pyrrho]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Probably it will be. But I still have no idea why you are opposed to curing cancer or heart disease. Very peculiar. I can suppose only that you, or anyone you care about, has not been seriously ill.

It could be that the person has been perverted by reading Leibniz, and imagines that these evils are necessary for the greater good. This being "the best possible world" means that this world is better than one in which such things do not happen. (I personally prefer Voltaire's take on this, but we are not talking about my position.)

[pantheras]

Originally Posted by xris

I dont think technology is going too fast, I think humanity is not keeping up ethically.

Try to look at it by this way. Thanks to technology, you have at disposal many ways how to make your life better or make worse life of the others. People can pick what they will do, because everything is possible, while there is any kind of util to make that happen.

The dilema how much look at the ethics will occur mostly after any confrontation. After that user will see that things can turn into something else.

For example kid which is sitting by playstation whole day can start to think about his life, while will figure out that just graduated from high-school and still have no girlfriend. It is about consequences which you can see if you just use these things.

[Jebediah]

Originally Posted by xris

I dont think technology is going too fast, I think humanity is not keeping up ethically. .

What makes you think that? Are we not less sexist, racist, xenophobic and homophobic than we were 100 years ago?