Is American Excess Now Realizing Its Limits?

[Pythagorean]

I'm wondering what does it mean to "sell out"?

To 'sell out' could mean to demean or diminish some good quality in the pursuit of short term interest. To exchange a human or social 'good' for short term gratification.

Like going on a diet. We don't eat those delicious fatty foods because we want to be healthy over the long term. So to go ahead and to eat those fatty foods right now would be a form of selling out our health in order to obtain immediate gratification.

The real human and social goods require long patience hard work, and sacrifice. But schools and universities seem to focus more on pop culture and also the politicization of the curriculum. Most of the overly specialized graduates are taught to hate the virtues or at least they are ignorant of the long hard patience that goes into being a good person, and having a good society, really requires. I have met many specialists who just desire to make money. And who can blame them in this social climate?

I am routinely insulted by the amount of advertising that is promoted in our society. I am also greatly insulted by the tone and message of these blaring, disgusting ads. There are lawyers who are chasing ambulances. These lawyers are, by the account they give in their own advertising, disgusting money-grubbing low life's chasing after the cheap buck. This does not promote a respect for the law. Yet it is a non-stop orgy of solicitation of the lowest order: and nobody says anything. (By the way, I see their commercials on a regular basis where they are ripping off Medicare and Medicaid in broad daylight.)

In fact, the bulk of the television stations carry so many commercials when they show something that they are unwatchable. The penis enlargement commercials run all night long ripping off the stupid men who fall for the promise of a larger genitalia. Genitalia cannot in fact be enlarged by medication or by creams. And even Bob Dole, the former 'conservative' candidate for president has endorsed Viagra (Viagra does actually work at least, but is this the kind of medicine we really need right now?)

But people have been cheating others out of money by using sex since the beginning of time. In the short term we can all get high and have sex but are we trading something that could be truly excellent for short term pleasure?

The pharmaceutical industry is out of control in America. The amount of people using prescription drugs in America is astronomical. They are literally bankrupting the entire health care system and not one person ever says that maybe we should not take so many drugs. I see no end to this trend outside of absolute bankruptcy.

The pornography industry has completely morphed and been absorbed into the whole society at large. I am not a prude but I think the emphasis upon short term gratification has a downside. But I don't believe it can be denied that America has become a pornographic society. I actually think that a lot of people are proud of this fact. The American people have become an immoral people.


The emphasis upon the lowest common denominator has dumbed down the people at large so that nobody knows the difference between right and wrong outside of the force that it applied to wrong doers. To most people the very idea that there could be a 'right' and a 'wrong' is not acceptable. Again: there is no real reason to do the right thing outside of the fact that force will be applied against one.

They keep on building more and more Casino's in America. The state governments never ever cut the size of their budgets. They would rather have slaves to the slot machines than cut the intrusive size of government. But with the advent of the lottery the state become the legal bookie a long time ago, it's just that now they are totally out of control. Gambling in my opinion reinforces the idea that short term gain is better than long term sacrifice. The state governments, by endorsing and profitting from this behaviour, are absolutely immoral entities.

Wall Street has become a cesspool. They are committing securities fraud in broad daylight. They are taking, sometimes in secret, billions and billions of taxpayers dollars and giving their staffs billion dollar (that's right, billion!) bonuses. The entire housing bubble was nothing but a ponzi scheme orchestrated by the federal reserve, which lowered interest rates to near zero in order to produce asset inflation. The bankers on Wall Street in turn sold million dollar houses to jobless immigrants and speculators in order to secure their fat bonuses. And they got away with it scott free. They made their short term gains at the expense of the taxpayer and the nation at large.


And of course, obsesity in America is out of control. The American people are the most obese people in the entire history of the human race. What I am suggesting is that there is a link between the obesity and the other short term thinking that I've mentioned. This is a large scale cultural disease that we're dealing with.

America is also in debt. We owe more than any other nation. And they have outsouced everything they could. They are bleeding the country dry.

Money is or has become more important than human life. Especially the human life that is worth living. The Federal Reserve, by printing so much money. is currently risking hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is as bad as a nuclear explosion. It is a devastating phenomenon. We are in a very bad position right now.

In my opinion the solution lies in the moral and the political spheres. Considering the current state of both of these,(morality is out the window and the politicians are blindly corrupt) then, there really is no viable solution. The limit has been realized.

[urangutan]

Drop in the fact, that the only world wide acceptable (legal) narcotic, is Tobacco. No other nation can legally profit world wide from its chem of dependance.

By the way I am a lazy so and so who won't quit, smoking that is.

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Pythagorean

In my opinion the solution lies in the moral and the political spheres. Considering the current state of both of these,(morality is out the window and the politicians are blindly corrupt) then, there really is no viable solution. The limit has been realized.

Hi,

It appears that this kind of group behavior is rather cyclical in human history, and in fact excess may in fact just be a way for each generation of humans to learn a bit of humility. Who knows? But I think it will happen again. Maybe in 80 years or so.

Rich

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Pythagorean

I'm wondering what does it mean to "sell out"?

To 'sell out' could mean to demean or diminish some good quality in the pursuit of short term interest. To exchange a human or social 'good' for short term gratification.

Like going on a diet. We don't eat those delicious fatty foods because we want to be healthy over the long term. So to go ahead and to eat those fatty foods right now would be a form of selling out our health in order to obtain immediate gratification.

The real human and social goods require long patience hard work, and sacrifice. But schools and universities seem to focus more on pop culture and also the politicization of the curriculum. Most of the overly specialized graduates are taught to hate the virtues or at least they are ignorant of the long hard patience that goes into being a good person, and having a good society, really requires. I have met many specialists who just desire to make money. And who can blame them in this social climate?

I am routinely insulted by the amount of advertising that is promoted in our society. I am also greatly insulted by the tone and message of these blaring, disgusting ads. There are lawyers who are chasing ambulances. These lawyers are, by the account they give in their own advertising, disgusting money-grubbing low life's chasing after the cheap buck. This does not promote a respect for the law. Yet it is a non-stop orgy of solicitation of the lowest order: and nobody says anything. (By the way, I see their commercials on a regular basis where they are ripping off Medicare and Medicaid in broad daylight.)

In fact, the bulk of the television stations carry so many commercials when they show something that they are unwatchable. The penis enlargement commercials run all night long ripping off the stupid men who fall for the promise of a larger genitalia. Genitalia cannot in fact be enlarged by medication or by creams. And even Bob Dole, the former 'conservative' candidate for president has endorsed Viagra (Viagra does actually work at least, but is this the kind of medicine we really need right now?)

But people have been cheating others out of money by using sex since the beginning of time. In the short term we can all get high and have sex but are we trading something that could be truly excellent for short term pleasure?

The pharmaceutical industry is out of control in America. The amount of people using prescription drugs in America is astronomical. They are literally bankrupting the entire health care system and not one person ever says that maybe we should not take so many drugs. I see no end to this trend outside of absolute bankruptcy.

The pornography industry has completely morphed and been absorbed into the whole society at large. I am not a prude but I think the emphasis upon short term gratification has a downside. But I don't believe it can be denied that America has become a pornographic society. I actually think that a lot of people are proud of this fact. The American people have become an immoral people.


The emphasis upon the lowest common denominator has dumbed down the people at large so that nobody knows the difference between right and wrong outside of the force that it applied to wrong doers. To most people the very idea that there could be a 'right' and a 'wrong' is not acceptable. Again: there is no real reason to do the right thing outside of the fact that force will be applied against one.

They keep on building more and more Casino's in America. The state governments never ever cut the size of their budgets. They would rather have slaves to the slot machines than cut the intrusive size of government. But with the advent of the lottery the state become the legal bookie a long time ago, it's just that now they are totally out of control. Gambling in my opinion reinforces the idea that short term gain is better than long term sacrifice. The state governments, by endorsing and profitting from this behaviour, are absolutely immoral entities.

Wall Street has become a cesspool. They are committing securities fraud in broad daylight. They are taking, sometimes in secret, billions and billions of taxpayers dollars and giving their staffs billion dollar (that's right, billion!) bonuses. The entire housing bubble was nothing but a ponzi scheme orchestrated by the federal reserve, which lowered interest rates to near zero in order to produce asset inflation. The bankers on Wall Street in turn sold million dollar houses to jobless immigrants and speculators in order to secure their fat bonuses. And they got away with it scott free. They made their short term gains at the expense of the taxpayer and the nation at large.


And of course, obsesity in America is out of control. The American people are the most obese people in the entire history of the human race. What I am suggesting is that there is a link between the obesity and the other short term thinking that I've mentioned. This is a large scale cultural disease that we're dealing with.

America is also in debt. We owe more than any other nation. And they have outsouced everything they could. They are bleeding the country dry.

Money is or has become more important than human life. Especially the human life that is worth living. The Federal Reserve, by printing so much money. is currently risking hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is as bad as a nuclear explosion. It is a devastating phenomenon. We are in a very bad position right now.

In my opinion the solution lies in the moral and the political spheres. Considering the current state of both of these,(morality is out the window and the politicians are blindly corrupt) then, there really is no viable solution. The limit has been realized.

Thank you, Jeremiah. REPENT!

[Pythagorean]

Upon further reflection, I have now realized that like drug addicts most Americans are actually suicidal. There seems to exist a kind of self-awareness among American people that their behaviour and the general path that the society is traveling down will lead to the destruction of the country as we now know it.

I repeat: the American people are self-consciouisly hurling to their own destruction. This is the height of immorality and irrationalism.

As I said previously the greatest threat we face is hyperinflation. For anyone who wishes to learn more about this threat I will post a explanatory video below.

This three part video on hyperinflation is brief enough and very well produced. It is easy to watch and highly informative.

Part 1:

YouTube - Hyperinflation Nation Part 1/3

Part 2:

YouTube - Hyperinflation Nation Part 2/3

Part 3:

YouTube - Hyperinflation Nation Part 3/3

My advice for people who want to be prepared is to grow a vegetable garden, secure firearms and invest in gold.

[Didymos Thomas]

Most of these problems being the result of our corporate system. We invented a legal person who is obligated, under the law, to do nothing but make as much money as possible. That is the height of immorality.

[Pythagorean]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Most of these problems being the result of our corporate system. We invented a legal person who is obligated, under the law, to do nothing but make as much money as possible. That is the height of immorality.

Who is this "legal person"?

As I attempted to demonstrate in my original post, the scope of the problem encompasses the entire American citizenry.

As I was saying, the politicization of the issue is an integral part of the problem. The continuing ideological politicization of human thought, ideas, University curiculuum, and life in general is part of the problem. The human rights cry for equality of outcomes leads to greater government intrusion into the civic sphere crowding out the real human goods, the goods of excellence that only come from long hard labour within authentic and reasonable communities. The continuing politicization of society is destroying social capital. This is a wide spread moral and political crisis.

This is a bad time for the further enhancement of government powers. This will lead -- is leading -- to a high tech police state where no one is responsible for themselves. With the enormous gaps between the Super Rich and the average American (wages for the middle class have been stagnant for a long time) we are heading toward the third world model of society already. To continue to play politics with the issue is an immoral act because it effectively blocks other constructive alternatives.

[Didymos Thomas]

The legal person is the corporation. Due to a series of Supreme Court decisions around the turn of the century, corporations were granted legal personhood, with the unique status of being obligated, by law, to be concerned only with turning a great a profit as possible.

This is not a political matter, but a judicial matter. Concern over corporate personhood is an issue that radical leftists and radical conservatives have all brought forth.

In effect, granting corporations legal personhood is intrusion of the government into what it means to be a person.

We must also remember that in order to fix a political problem, we must act politically. In this instance, it would seem to me that we as voters should focus more attention on what Presidential candidates look for when they appoint Judges, and we should also reevaluate the system by which in some states, like West Virginia, Judges actually campaign for their office.

I know that in the past our political disagreements have come to the fore front, but on the issues you have wisely mentioned, I think we have a great deal of ground for agreement. Especially concerning wealth disparity, which is largely the result of government subsidizing big business and structuring the tax codes in ways that favor the wealthy by providing loopholes for the wealthy to avoid paying the full share of their taxes according to tax brackets.

This issue also creeps into other problems, like the food we eat. The government offers huge subsidies for corn, which goes almost exclusively to a few massive commercial agricultural businesses like Monsanto, instead of family farmers who are a quickly dying breed of American. Because corn is so cheap due to the subsidies, it is cheaper to feed cattle corn, which is a food that cattle should not consume. The result is sick livestock - that steak you and I eat came from an unhealthy animal.

We are talking about problems so massive and complex that politicians refuse to address them - for, among other reasons, that they do not understand the full complexity of these issues. And neither do I, for that matter. I'm not sure anyone fully comprehends the depth of our collective milieu, which is only that much more terrifying.

[Elmud]

There is good news and bad news. Good news, beans and tators ain't that bad. Bad news, beans and tators ain't that cheap anymore..

[Pythagorean]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

The legal person is the corporation. Due to a series of Supreme Court decisions around the turn of the century, corporations were granted legal personhood, with the unique status of being obligated, by law, to be concerned only with turning a great a profit as possible.

This is not a political matter, but a judicial matter. Concern over corporate personhood is an issue that radical leftists and radical conservatives have all brought forth.

In effect, granting corporations legal personhood is intrusion of the government into what it means to be a person.

Thomas, I'm not familiar with this issue. It is my hunch that you are focusing upon corporate and business greed and I grant you that the business community is as part of the problem as is every other community. But just reforming the business community does not address the true problem, in my opinion. As a matter of fact I don't believe that the business community could ever really be reformed without properly addressing the problem.

I call what you wrote an undue politicization of the issue because you are bringing to the table what I consider to be a narrow focus upon businesses and corporations.

The current economic crisis is a symptom, not a business problem, and cannot be solved by a simple reform of the business community. The basic scheme of taxation in any democratic society is not merely a procedural matter, in my opinion, but rather it is reflective of a moral consensus. What I mean is that, without the proper morality (essentially, in the absence of good people) then any attempt to provide a fix to the problem will only rearrange and shift the problem around. All short term solutions will fail.

We must also remember that in order to fix a political problem, we must act politically. In this instance, it would seem to me that we as voters should focus more attention on what Presidential candidates look for when they appoint Judges, and we should also reevaluate the system by which in some states, like West Virginia, Judges actually campaign for their office.

What is the connection between Judges and the true nature of the predicament?

I know that in the past our political disagreements have come to the fore front, but on the issues you have wisely mentioned, I think we have a great deal of ground for agreement. Especially concerning wealth disparity, which is largely the result of government subsidizing big business and structuring the tax codes in ways that favor the wealthy by providing loopholes for the wealthy to avoid paying the full share of their taxes according to tax brackets.

I do appreciate your interest and all the credit to you for recognizing the severity of the matter. That's more than I can say of most politicians both conservative and liberal alike.

But I have to say by focusing upon business and corporatations I believe you are missing the essence of the problem. The greatest challenge that we face is in identifying the true nature of these problems. I believe they are moral and political too and that all parties are to blame which means the solution necessarily involves great and difficult changes throughout the entire socicety.

The United States is quicly transforming itself into a third world type of nation. The two-tier economy is an unmistakable sign of this trend. Raising taxes upon the very rich may well be part of a sound solution. However, if the real issues go unaddressed, then even heavy taxation of the super-rich will not solve these problems.

We are talking about problems so massive and complex that politicians refuse to address them - for, among other reasons, that they do not understand the full complexity of these issues. And neither do I, for that matter. I'm not sure anyone fully comprehends the depth of our collective milieu, which is only that much more terrifying.

Our society is replete with specialists and this fact tends to obscure the overall picture. But they are all human beings and they are all mortal, and in the end and all motivated in similar ways. More technical analysis is not necessary, nor would it solve anything in my opinion.