Time is it moving slower than it was in the young universe?

[amrhima]

Originally Posted by I am question

This seems a bit naive. The general relativity theory has never been proven true, because if it was then it wouldn't be called a theory and we wouldn't have quantum mechanics and theoretical physics today.

Sorry but this is what is naive, a scientific theory does not just mean hypothesis, for the millionth time a scientific theory is confirmed hypothesis, general relativity has made many predictions that were true and is very accurate describing the macro world, one of the predictions is that light is affected by gravity, another is a more complicated orbit for each planet to name a few. But the case is not only about general relativity or any particular theory, it's about the use of the word.

[I am question]

Originally Posted by Samm

I have approached this issue from a philosophical angle, since I am not trained in the complexities of quantum or relativistic mathematics. My conclusions have been that time, if it is a dimension at all, must be a collapsed dimension. All that exists of time, as we imagine it, is the here and now of it, the present. The reality of things is change, as amrhima and validity (and you?) have suggested. Change happens only in the present. There is no change in the past, but only memory, and the other traces of conditions prior to change, that exist in the present. (The location of each grain of sand on the ocean shore is the sum of all past changes that have occurred to that grain of sand added to the location and condition of its point of origin.) There is no future, but only the innate potentials intrinsic to conditions in the present that collapse the probability functions that bring about change. (Real properties intrinsic to any particle and its environment of detection, including inertia and momentum and quantum effects, determine the changes that particle will undergo.) Thus the past and future both exist in and contribute to the ever-changing present.

If we accept that change is the reality for which time is only a measure, then we may speak of the passage of time (the speed of time's passing from future to past) as a rate of change based upon real physical properties that underlie such changes. Instead of saying that time slows down for objects in an accelerated or increased gravitational frame of reference, then we may say instead that the rate of change within that frame of reference has slowed. This would mean that something within that framework had a universal effect upon everything within it resulting in the slowing of the process of change within it--at least relative to a stationary observer.

There is no doubt that our experience of time is an effect of short term immediate memories that allow us to compare what seems to be the present to moments immediately preceding it. This suggests that much of what we describe as time is an internal phenomenon of consciousness and the mind. Here I speak of consciousness, not as it is elsewhere defined, but simply as "that-which-experiences" in its broadest sense. Given this special understanding of consciousness as nothing more than the specific agent of our being by which we experience everything (our selves and our world), it is possible to conceive of everything in the universe as having such consciousness; for it is precisely "that-which-experiences" by which every subatomic particle, every atom, every molecule, every cell, every organism, everything in the universe is able to interact with every other thing within the range of its detection. The consciousness of an atom is not sentient, rather it is an automatic responsiveness to the stimulations of its environment upon the properties intrinsic to it. Human consciousness is far more complex and does involve sentience, if somewhat less than we might fancy.

Although I come to define consciousness from an internal analysis of my own human experience, it may also be seen as a physical characteristic or property and examined by scientific analysis. It identifies, for example, any change in the motion of an electron due to the force exerted by electrical charges in its vicinity, not as effects of the force pushing or pulling the passive electron, but rather as active changes in its motion enacted by the electron in response to its experience of those forces. This is not an overriding revelation, but only a different way of looking at physical events consistent with Feynman diagrams and the current view that forces are conveyed by particles (bosons).

Every event or process, every change that constitutes what we conceive as time, is the result of actions initiated by particles in response to their experience of their environment (e.g., other particles with which they interact). Something about gravity and acceleration affects the interaction of these particles and the aggregate objects and beings they comprise, resulting in the process of stimulus and response (the basis of all experience) slowing with increases of gravity and acceleration relative to similar processes in a stationary or unincreased gravity frame of reference.

Could this potentially be consistent with your views?

Samm

Thats a lot. What Im trying to state here in the most simplest and shortest way is: Time DOES NOT exist in the physical universe, but in a general consensus of society through definition, it DOES exist, only if you don't separate it semantically.

[Alan McDougall]

Originally Posted by I am question

Thats a lot. What Im trying to state here in the most simplest and shortest way is: Time DOES NOT exist in the physical universe, but in a general consensus of society through definition, it DOES exist, only if you don't separate it semantically.

How can entropy flow without time??

[I am question]

Originally Posted by Alan McDougall

How can entropy flow without time??

When given a system whose exact description is unknown, its entropy is defined as the amount of information needed to exactly specify the state of the system (to the full extent that it can be described in the universe itself). Entropy is just energy in a specific location, so you can identify that location. Listen, think outside the box man. Take time out of the equation, it seems that your saying without time there is no energy, where can you prove this? And don't say its general relativity, because the only thing Einstein said about time was it was timeless, that we are in this space-time continuum, he said it was an illusion. Don't get stuck on his theories, thats what a lot of people do, keep your mind wandering and open to everything.

[Samm]

Are we saying that time is nothing more than clocks and calendars used to mark the occurrence of this or that event? Is it like the ruler we lay down on paper to measure the dimensions of a drawing? Time is a temporal ruler? and the drawing is reality?

Samm

[I am question]

Originally Posted by Samm

Are we saying that time is nothing more than clocks and calendars used to mark the occurrence of this or that event? Is it like the ruler we lay down on paper to measure the dimensions of a drawing? Time is a temporal ruler? and the drawing is reality?

Samm

If you want to put it that way. Think if time was not involved with a pregnancy occurring in nine months. That baby will still pop out if time wasn't involved, why? Anyone ever heard of biology? Don't interlink time with change because change of anything is due to its surroundings and decay(in a aging process). Its not linked with motion, its not time that makes the planets orbit the sun, if this is true then everybody must of failed 5th grade science. It seems so hard to rule time out of the equation, but you must push yourself farther and try to understand its not there. C'mon people I know every single on of you guys and girls are creative. Just think hard on what exactly any clock we have ever created actually does. Your measuring time, certainly there's no denying that, but your not physically taking time and looking at it. You can't physically put time into a laboratory and study it. A clock is not time we should all know it that, it measures time, but where do you grab time and put it in your hand. But like I said before it does exist, its linear like our conscience. the past is just memories and the future is an expansion of your chosen actions. You can say there is a tomorrow but when you get there your just going to rename it 'today'. Everything is only present tense. We shouldn't say anything is a dimension, because we wont have proof, we only live and understand in three, we can question a fourth dimension but would we be able to understand it?

[Alan McDougall]

Originally Posted by I am question

When given a system whose exact description is unknown, its entropy is defined as the amount of information needed to exactly specify the state of the system (to the full extent that it can be described in the universe itself). Entropy is just energy in a specific location, so you can identify that location. Listen, think outside the box man. Take time out of the equation, it seems that your saying without time there is no energy, where can you prove this? And don't say its general relativity, because the only thing Einstein said about time was it was timeless, that we are in this space-time continuum, he said it was an illusion. Don't get stuck on his theories, thats what a lot of people do, keep your mind wandering and open to everything.

Heck I wish I was as sure of my facts as you are. Are you saying time is only a local measure of how we move through space??

[I am question]

Originally Posted by Alan McDougall

Heck I wish I was as sure of my facts as you are. Are you saying time is only a local measure of how we move through space??

If you want to say that point A in space is where you start, and you are trying to get to Point B, you measure the distance in length of course, then you measure it in time. But if you dont measure the distance between each point then how do you know if your at Point B? Right thats easy common sense. If you dont measure the time of the distance traveled from each point, you will still be able to travel, but you don't have numbers telling you the duration of an event through movement, but you still reach point B. Of course it is a measurement of cycles we perceive in everyday life. It simply has no cause and effect. The manifestation of time show us how powerful our mind really is.

[Alan McDougall]

Originally Posted by I am question

If you want to say that point A in space is where you start, and you are trying to get to Point B, you measure the distance in length of course, then you measure it in time. But if you dont measure the distance between each point then how do you know if your at Point B? Right thats easy common sense. If you dont measure the time of the distance traveled from each point, you will still be able to travel, but you don't have numbers telling you the duration of an event through movement, but you still reach point B. Of course it is a measurement of cycles we perceive in everyday life. It simply has no cause and effect. The manifestation of time show us how powerful our mind really is.

Good post!! By the way Einstein never said there was no such thing as time, he said that there is no such thing as universal time. In other words clocks run differently in different locations in the universe relative to one another. So you have a good point!

Isaac Newton believed if you could synchronise all the clocks in the universe they would stay in synch. relative to one another.

If you exclude time from the universe then you open up the possibility of an infinite everlasting universe. This could not happen in a universe where time is a constant, e.g. the arrow of time would be pushed back to infinity

[Krumple]

Originally Posted by I am question

If you want to say that point A in space is where you start, and you are trying to get to Point B, you measure the distance in length of course, then you measure it in time. But if you dont measure the distance between each point then how do you know if your at Point B? Right thats easy common sense. If you dont measure the time of the distance traveled from each point, you will still be able to travel, but you don't have numbers telling you the duration of an event through movement, but you still reach point B. Of course it is a measurement of cycles we perceive in everyday life. It simply has no cause and effect. The manifestation of time show us how powerful our mind really is.

What you are referring to here is velocity. But I think you have really bent the concept into something other than what it is and that something is not quite correct.

If you have zero velocity then you will never reach point B. Unless you want to be technical and ask the question if you are a passenger with zero velocity but the vehicle is providing it instead. Regardless of who is doing the moving, if the velocity is zero, you will never arrive at point B.

Therefore velocity is distance/time

At any point if you make time zero or stopped, then your velocity MUST also be zero or stopped. You can not ignore this fact yet you are insisting it can be done. It can't.

I know people are going to ask about light and that is even easier to answer. Regardless of what you hear, time does not stop at or near the speed of light. If it did, it wouldn't have a velocity, but the photons do have a velocity and we can measure it.

The only thing that appears to stop is from the observers point of view. Just like when you are sitting in a car and watching some other object near by that is moving, it appears to be moving in slow motion. If you were traveling on a photon, everything would appear to be stopped but it is not.
However time would move normally for you sitting on the photon. If time stopped while you were on the photon you wouldn't even be able to do anything. Your eyes wouldn't blink, you wouldn't breath, you wouldn't even think because all those things require time.

Not to mention again, you can't have velocity without a time signature. Even Einsteins equation has in it time but people ignore it.

The speed of light is the distance light travels in a given amount of time. In other words a velocity.