Acceptance/rejection God/man

[Didymos Thomas]

I thought about this more, and I see it this way: Jesus had one purpose in life, to save man by sacraficing himself. However, there were also benefits to our life, a major one is being a role model for the good life and another is to bring the Word in the flesh.

Then where is our disagreement? I agree that faith implies action, which is why I argued them both to be important.

This came from Jesus: John 17:1-3 "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ."

This is a difficult issue. John presents so many issues for readers, but I think the topic would be better in it's own thread. Here I will say that the Gospel of John is quite different than the other three Gospels of the Bible. Only in this Gospel does Jesus speak at length about himself. Only in this Gospel is the notion that Jesus is the only begotten son of God given. Most scholars have rejected John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus. When we read the Gospels and one is clearly out of place, we pay attention to it. There must be some account for the difference.

[Wizzy]

Originally Posted by dpmartin

The logic when it comes to the True God. Is it is illogical to require God to be that which one thinks God should be; for the True God is the One who knows what man should be.

According to me it's illogic to demand anything from god seince there isn't any logical reason for god to exsist. If god where real, there would be a real answer to the Theodicy problem (why does bad things happen to good people), but there isn't. The most logical answer I've ever heard came from the unexpected source of a movie starring Huge Grant where he said:
Either God can't stop all evil, but he wants to, but then he isn't all-mighty
Or he doesn't want to, but can, but then he's evil himself
Or he neither can nor want to, then why would you call him god at all?
Well, atleast it was something like that. Now most belivers say something like "god gave humans free will, so he can't stop humans from hurting eachother" like, he didn't help the Jews during WWII but at the same time, the bible does say that he helped the Jews in Egypt, so I think that s*it fails to. It seems that whenever something good happens to any christian, god did it to them, but if it's bad, another human did it to them, doesn't make much sense to me.

Originally Posted by dpmartin

Is there any thing stated in this posting that doesn’t stand as True?

As I've allready banged on the source of your question, if feels stupid to bang on the rest as it falls with the source. Ofcourse, you, as you seem to be a firm beliver of god, won't accept what I just said just because you would feel so empty and so alone if you did. I know, I used to be a beliver to but while I grew up I realized more and more how much BS where in all those stories you can read in the bible, and it wasn't until I read the bible that I stoped beliving, now this might sound stupid to most people as the bible is suppose to be the source of that religion but as I acctually thought about what it said about the acts of "god", of how he acted, how he treated some people, while giving blessings to other people, whow, I just couldn't belive that anything could be that ******* evil. And after that, I started thinking about just the idea of "god" and after a while I came the the conclusion that if 16.000 kids can starve to death every day all over the world and most of them probably haven't even gotten a chance to sin yet, how the f*ck can murderers, rapists, theifs and gay people (I'm not against homosexuals at all, but the bible is..) live in what the bible call sin every day but still live full lives? Does that s*it make any sense to you? Why would we even need a police force and laws if god where out there ready to punish sinners? Think about it man, god isn't real and you know it to. Usually, religion works because people are scared to death of.. death.. They are so afraid of the fact that one day their lives are going to end, and there is no white light afterwards, and there is nothing they can do to stop it.

[de Silentio]

According to me it's illogic to demand anything from god seince there isn't any logical reason for god to exsist

Is there any real logic for God not to exist?

[Wizzy]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

Is there any real logic for God not to exist?

Yes, I just gave you a logical problem to why god can't exsist, didn't you read it all or what's this about? There's several reasons to tell you the truth. We where given a problem in school by our religion teacher and it went like this:

God is all-mighty and have no flaws
Then god must exsist, cause if he didn't it would be a flaw

Don't remember who did this but it was verry old and some semi-famous philosopher had done it I think.. Anyways he god doesn't exsist, he isn't all-mighty thus he can't have any flaws because something that doesn't exsists can't have flaws.

And then I'm sticking to the fact that 16.000kids starve to death every day in the world... That's just proves that god doesn't exsist or that you shouldn't worship him anyways because he's a evil person...

[Justin]

And then I'm sticking to the fact that 16.000kids starve to death every day in the world... That's just proves that god doesn't exsist or that you shouldn't worship him anyways because he's a evil person...

Briefly looking at these posts and discussions, it seems that the difficulty is rather... defining God. Each of us have a different perspective and many of us view God differently.

Most people refer to God like another human being and that he's allowing people to starve and evil in the world. That's funny to me because it's man that has created all of that. Man creates his world through his thoughts and perception and it's man who has created the evil.

We currently have mess because Man for one, doesn't understand MAN. Second, because Man doesn't understand what God is. Religions have defined God for each sect. Each religion views God differently. Matter of fact, God is a name man created to identify this source we know very little about.

Now that we have God nailed down to a fictitious entity in the sky or heaven, we can blame God and fear God instead of Man finding the God within himself and within his fellow man. Let's not forget that Jesus spoke in a language of science and it's the translations and the doctrines that man has decided in the Bible that many of todays believers place their entire lives in.

LOL. In my opinion, people are clueless. We have been told certain things and taught certain things and from one generation to the next, this information is passed. For most Christians, it's unimaginable that God isn't what the man of the Bible has described him to be. Religions are set in their beliefs and they all believe differently. The word is only one word... yet it's twisted by individual interpretations and perceptions. Now look at what it's done to us. Christians and Muslims fighting and killing each other. Hate is breeding hate and it's because of some screwed up mentality that we all believe in different forms of God.

Man, from all walks of life has built his identity on his physical self and the accumulation of wealth or whatever. What is man? Geesh, with all the technology we don't even know the answer to that very simple question. Most religious men believe they are their body. Their existence relies on whether or not their physical body is alive or not. If we continue to identify ourselves with things of this earth or with things outside of ourselves, we're going to keep destroying each other... I don't care if you call yourself a saint.

So, step back and take a look at a few facts. These are facts and I know their facts because I know they are. I've experienced them in my own life.

1. The entire universe is Energy in Motion!
2. Thought is energy. First is thought, then is manifestation. Nothing in the physical world can be manifested without the thought of it first.
3. We are our own worst enemy... I can prove it, just take a look at the news.
4. We blame God or others for things we create.

The above are facts. Whether or not one wants to perceive them to be facts is completely up to them but there's not a doubt in my mind.

So in essence, we are living creation in the form of energy with universal mind... divided only by our perception. Christians perceive Muslims to be wrong and visa versa. It's the perception that divides. Both create. We all create.

So, does Man control Man or does God? What is God then if we know for a fact the Universe is energy? We can have a good day or a bad day based on our thoughts. We choose to live in poverty based on our thoughts or the mindset of the country. We have all the resources to create and live abundantly once we identify our mind. Mind is eternal and that's what we are. So if God were a tree, we'd be the branches. One divided source of energy split into sexed opposites creating balance and beauty... but, that's not what mankind believes or what he's ready for.

The major difficulty with this is that many a men can currently blame God and once that's taken away, then they realize that the only one to blame is oneself. It all starts at the center and someday we'll understand this. The center is mind and it's something we as beings know very little about... because instead of living our lives to identify both the God within ourselves, creation and fellow man, we're out there trying to tell others who and how they should worship and what they are doing wrong.

I could write forever on this topic but I'll keep it to a short one.

So, back to the original thread topic. Accepting God is accepting oneself and accepting the fact that we are co-creating this entire universe with our thoughts and actions. So long as we fashion our lives solely based on physical existence, we're going to continue creating evil and destruction.

The peace that The Living God has made between Himself and the son of man, is that man is required to make peace with the Son of God, that God has given and keeps. If one does not except the Son of God, one does not accept God’s peace, nor will one have peace with God.

DP, that peace can only be found within and the acceptance of it wont come until we understand what God really is. The footprints are in the sand the entire way baby. Peace isn't something we have to go seeking or reaching for. The peace of God is within everyman should he open his blinded eyes and see that the light is in all creation and the light is good. So to answer your original question...

Man has the Power! - and he'll discover it when he's ready

I love you all and enjoy the opportunity to write. Most people think I'm off the wall and have trouble understanding my reasoning so it's OK if some of us disagree. Peace!

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Justin

We currently have mess because Man for one, doesn't understand MAN. Second, because Man doesn't understand what God is. Religions have defined God for each sect. Each religion views God differently.

As do, of course, people and cultures outside the context of religion, which is a major feature of modernity.

it's the translations and the doctrines that man has decided in the Bible that many of todays believers place their entire lives in.

And that many beliefs were decided in committees, like the Council of Nycea. And that certain dogmatic beliefs are retrospectively imposed upon older doctrine -- like the Christian idea that the Torah somehow anticipates Jesus even though no Jewish perspective would ever accept that.

Now look at what it's done to us. Christians and Muslims fighting and killing each other. Hate is breeding hate and it's because of some screwed up mentality that we all believe in different forms of God.

Of course they've been doing that in the middle east since the time of Assyrians and Hittites and Canaanites. We don't need religion to hate each other -- it's just a very easy excuse to do so.

Most religious men believe they are their body. Their existence relies on whether or not their physical body is alive or not.

I think this is generally not true, with most religions having a dualism that understates the importance of the body (true in Eastern religions as well).

[Wizzy]

Originally Posted by Justin

I love you all and enjoy the opportunity to write. Most people think I'm off the wall and have trouble understanding my reasoning so it's OK if some of us disagree. Peace!

Great, I'll take you up on that!

First of all, I didn't realy understand if you belived in god or not or if you hade your werry own idea of what "god" is but in anycase I got something to come down on

Originally Posted by Justin

We can have a good day or a bad day based on our thoughts. We choose to live in poverty based on our thoughts or the mindset of the country. We have all the resources to create and live abundantly once we identify our mind.

So you're saying that people choose to be poor? Are you out of your ******* (thought that expression suited this discussion) mind!? I know alot of get-rich-or-die-trying people who died trying.. Although I do belive that people like to blame their problems on other people but still, it's hard for somebody in africa to get rich or even get enougth to get out of there. But still, either you're loco or you're just dumb...

[Justin]

Lol. The poverty I'm speaking of is not money, it's the poverty of the mind. Once again, money doesn't make the man... contrary to popular belief.

I think this is generally not true, with most religions having a dualism that understates the importance of the body (true in Eastern religions as well).

It's generally not thought to be true but then again, where have they built their temples? I use that very generally.

[de Silentio]

Yes, I just gave you a logical problem to why god can't exsist, didn't you read it all or what's this about? There's several reasons to tell you the truth.

I read the post. And from what I deduced, the logic wasn't that good. It seems like you are trying to state the problem of evil, but I don't see any straight forward logic in there. I was looking for real logic, formal logic.

And then I'm sticking to the fact that 16.000kids starve to death every day in the world... That's just proves that god doesn't exsist or that you shouldn't worship him anyways because he's a evil person

All that proves is that your concept of God leads to an evil God or no God. If God exists eternally and has knowledge that is beyond our knowledge, who are you to say that he is not good because children starve?

[Wizzy]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

I read the post. And from what I deduced, the logic wasn't that good. It seems like you are trying to state the problem of evil, but I don't see any straight forward logic in there. I was looking for real logic, formal logic.

well the Theodicy problem is one of the few things that you can beat religion on logicly and the Theodicy problem is about why there's evil in the world if there's an all-mighty god, as he could stop it. And to tell you the truth, you doesn't have any logical argument to why my logic in the Theodicy problem wheren't "real logic" as you call it, the only "fake logic" I know is the once that alot of christians use when they try to explain why there has to be a god because they often use assumptions and try to pass of the bible as proof of anything, I heared a christian say once that "That we have a 2000 year old book that people still read and talk about is proof of a miracle, made possible by god" and then I asked why she hadn't started a religion around Sun Tzu's "The art of War" sense it's estimated to be about 2500 years old.... So why don't you tell me, in "real logic" why god exsists and possibly, the answer to the Theodicy problem?

Originally Posted by de Silentio

All that proves is that your concept of God leads to an evil God or no God. If God exists eternally and has knowledge that is beyond our knowledge, who are you to say that he is not good because children starve?

Well, it's not only really that I can use arguments straight from the bible to make atleast christianity collaps but I've found that christians loves to chance their minds on how the bible should be taken, if something isn't right or if it says something against itself, then the bible shouldn't be taken littarally but if something is moraly right in the bible, it should. Sometimes they claim that it should be taken as a poem, sometimes as fact, sometimes as a moral code and sometimes as a story of good vs. evil and when christians use this bullshit method to argue for religion, it's impossible to win because they can just change their mind as they please while if you use real FACTS about how messed up the world really is like that about starving children, they can't say that you're wrong, they can only use that some bullshit argument as you just used. It doesn't matter if god isn't real or if he's evil, just that one fact about how many kids, innocent ******* kids, starve to death every single day in this messed up world just because they live in the wrong place, the wrong country, the wrong continent to prove that either, god isn't real or he's evil and in anyway, you shouldn't worship him! And can you tell me what good a child starving to death can do in the long run I would loooove to hear it but untill you can provide me with atleast a reasoable answer then I think you shouldn't use that "ultimate plan" bullshit towards anybody in any argument!