The Value of Freedom

[hue-man]

Some people regard freedom as the ultimate political value, while others regard equality as being more valuable or equally as valuable as freedom. Why is it that some people value freedom with little to no constraints (anarchists, libertarians, etc) even when there are obvious negative externalities? Is it because of their will to power?

[Camerama]

Freedom presupposes equality. Freedom is primary, while equality is a by-product.

[xris]

In my opinion equality is impossible and freedom is an illusion. Freedom is only defined when it appears to be threatened but in fact it is never truly permitted.

[Camerama]

Not in our present society or under our present rule. I can agree with that.

[hue-man]

Originally Posted by xris

In my opinion equality is impossible and freedom is an illusion. Freedom is only defined when it appears to be threatened but in fact it is never truly permitted.

What degree of freedom do you mean? Are you speaking of absolute freedom or anarchy? Also, what do you mean when you say that equality is impossible?

[Arjuna]

Originally Posted by hue-man

Some people regard freedom as the ultimate political value, while others regard equality as being more valuable or equally as valuable as freedom. Why is it that some people value freedom with little to no constraints (anarchists, libertarians, etc) even when there are obvious negative externalities? Is it because of their will to power?

We could imagine that extreme biases against government are explained by the idea that human government is inherently wrong because the greatest and best governor is nature. From this point of view, human government at best, interferes with the free flow of action arising from nature, at worst, it's a mechanism for corruption and subversion.

"The government which governs best, governs least." is a statement that reflects this perspective.

In actuality, anarchists end up being out for attention. They're using the name anarchist for its edgy terror factor. On the other hand, they may represent the extent to which the population is angry...

Haymarket affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[hue-man]

Originally Posted by Arjuna

We could imagine that extreme biases against government are explained by the idea that human government is inherently wrong because the greatest and best governor is nature. From this point of view, human government at best, interferes with the free flow of action arising from nature, at worst, it's a mechanism for corruption and subversion.

"The government which governs best, governs least." is a statement that reflects this perspective.

In actuality, anarchists end up being out for attention. They're using the name anarchist for its edgy terror factor. On the other hand, they may represent the extent to which the population is angry...

Haymarket affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The free flow of action arising from nature is usually based on the will to power which, if not governed, can have a destructive affect on society.

I don't think all or even most anarchists are just out for attention. I think many of them genuinely believe in the theoretical inviolability of freedom.

[xris]

Originally Posted by hue-man

What degree of freedom do you mean? Are you speaking of absolute freedom or anarchy? Also, what do you mean when you say that equality is impossible?

Equality is decided at birth not bestowed on you by a certain independent board. Freedom is the allowance society allows you, it can never permit you to have the advantages that total freedom, is. We are restricted by the needs of others freedoms. The right to carry arms in America is freedom Americans have, for us in the UK we would see it as being against our freedom, to allow others to carry them.

[sneer]

Freedom, understood as a set of basic laws for a community, means prohibition, because its origin is politics, and its subject is the mob.
In my oponion, every politics' intention is to manage the mob.
Politicians are cheaters. Those prominent guys are not doing and not talking anything worth of attention. They have a simple goal and know very well, what to tell to be chosen next time.
The equality is known slogan, well appreciated by the mob since minimum 2000 years, I guess. But humans aren't equal, even if we do not like it.
The real freedom, in my opinion, is a state of mind, therefore its real, as far as real is any thought.

[hue-man]

Originally Posted by xris

Equality is decided at birth not bestowed on you by a certain independent board. Freedom is the allowance society allows you, it can never permit you to have the advantages that total freedom, is. We are restricted by the needs of others freedoms. The right to carry arms in America is freedom Americans have, for us in the UK we would see it as being against our freedom, to allow others to carry them.

How is equality decided at birth and impossible at the same time? What does that even mean? I disagree that freedom is an illusion. Who among us is deluded enough to believe that we have absolute freedom to do what we want without rule based consequences? It's not so much that freedom is an illusion; it just comes in degrees.