U.S. Fundamentalism & Divisiveness

[jeeprs]

besides.... I LOVE America. Icecream, movies, jazz...heck, I play jazz...Steely Dan...where would we be without 'em? Not to mention saving our necks in the Battle of the Coral Sea....anyway, will be going there in October, finally...

[Didymos Thomas]

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

Didymos,
I think that labeling American society as narcissistic is a relative thing though and not entirely correct.

Again, go look at the studies. Don't mind me. No, not every American is a narcissist, but our society is growing increasingly narcissistic. That's a fact that can be checked - you know where to look.

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

Not to say that American identity does not have a degree of inflated self importance, but does any other national identity have less?

I'm not sure how we measure up against other nations. That would be interesting to know. I haven't even seen any studies on other nation's narcissism. Dammit, know I gotta scour the web for info. I'll report back if I find anything.

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

But I’m sure there are just as many that say the exact opposite.

I've never seen one, and I've looked. If you can find such an article.... well, pass it along.

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

In fact (and ironically ties to Americans perception of self importance LOL!) is the fact that America is the top country by far that donates to private causes… in the realm of $34.8 billion (2006) compared to the runner up Britain with $1.6 million.

While that's wonderful, this has nothing to do with narcissism. Narcissists donate, too.

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

It’s amusing how Americans would be labeled by some foreigners as selfish, even though they give so much out of their own pockets. If a people donate so much privately and don’t at least contemplate the importance of their contribution to the welfare of those in need, we would be undervaluing our worth as a productive people (aside from the fact that we are selfish LOL!).

And it is an absurd generalization that people make when they assume that if one is American that one must be selfish. But it happens.

Of course, as you say, we are selfish

[VideCorSpoon]

Fair enough. The studies that I have read have had narcissistic tendencies in their own ways, displayed flagrant self-interest for their own agendas or specific points they intend to convey. You would have to post links or reference the studies you have read on the issue, but as far as I have seen, they are all agenda based and not entirely unbiased analyses. I would be very interested to read a fully unbiased accusation of American narcissism. Although, I don’t expect to ever come across such a document. I really do not deny that Americans are not narcissistic, far from it, only that others are just as guilty of it as much as Americans. That’s why I have a relative position on it. In a sense, we are criticizing shades of grey.

On the subject of narcissists and donating, you don't think that the two issues are inextricably connected? That an act of selflessness confronts an act of self interest (fundamentally speaking)? I would think that would have everything to do with the notion of narcissism. If a narcissist donates, that means they are free to change their mind. LOL! However, I suppose that's all relative.

To be brutally honest though, I really don’t take accusations of American narcissism too seriously. It’s more amusing than illuminating because the goal is usually criticism in particular rather than some greater relational truth. Personally, I think these studies come off more as self-hate and depressive context rather than anything productive and genuinely informed. But that does not mean that there is not something genuinely meaningful in the studies though, just that I think the reports are mostly biased.

[RDRDRD1]

To an outsider who has had a chance to live in your country, back when you were preoccupied with Asians in black pyjamas, I have the powerful impression that I have not seen your countrymen that divided until Bush Jr. took office. During the Vietnam era, particularly prior to 1970, Americans were fiercely divided. It took quite a while for those scars to heal but eventually Americans seemed to return to a degree of cohesiveness again. I think Americans were more united, rightly or wrongly, under Reagan than I've ever seen them in my sixty years.

Now there seems to be such an anger, particularly on the right, that it renders them insensible, willing to believe the most preposterous lies. Look at the Lizard Queen herself, ranting on about "Death Panels." She just makes up this crap - there's no other word for it - as she goes and people believe her. It's breathtaking to an outsider and a little bit chilling also. When you get people who are supposedly credible contenders for high office egg on the crowd with patent, crazy talk, that office seeker and her followers are scary. This woman is not appealing to sane people. Sane people know what she says is outright, unadulterated crap. What sane person would embrace or even support a would-be leader who talks crazy talk?

You have a problem down there and it's one that could easily get much worse. There are so many issues that are begging for rationale discussion and debate that seem to get deliberately sidetracked by people talking utter crap to an audience raising their bowls and asking if they might have another.

[Didymos Thomas]

Remember, Vide, narcissism is not exactly the same as selfishness. And donating money is not always done out of selfless intent.

A narcissist might drop money in the bucket while thinking, "Oh, if those poor, pathetic wretches do not get my help, my kind, compassionate, awesome, super-duper, perfect in every way help, what ever shall they do? No. They need me, and I am just that freakin' awesome. I can spare a dollar."

[RDRDRD1]

Oh dear, I just listened to the City on the Hill's latter day Prophet, Glenn Beck, tell his viewing audience that Obama's healthcare agenda, like all your president's other initiatives, is all about - wait for it - reparations! You people need help. A lot of help. You need it now. It's like blood poisoning. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

[Khethil]

Originally Posted by RDRDRD1

... You people need help. A lot of help. You need it now. It's like blood poisoning. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

This is exactly how it feels.

[RDRDRD1]

Just as an aside, some people are fighting back against this toxic extremism. There's a website, colorofchange.org, that has put up a petition to Beck's sponsors. So far it's working. He's lost Proctor & Gamble, Lawyers Inc., Progressive Insurance and Geiko. It seems tens of thousands have signed on to this petition, enough to nudge these major advertisers to dump this clown. That's the sort of message FOX News can understand.


http://www.colorofchange.org/beck/

[VideCorSpoon]

RDRDRD1,

LOL! Glen Beck the latter day prophet. Believe me when I say that Glen Beck is far from danger as far as sponsors are concerned. It’s the second most watched news show in America for 2009, ironically with the top six or seven spots occupied by Fox news shows. Glenn Beck ratings skyrocket, Olbermann up, Maddow down, has anyone seen CNN? | I Hate the Media - Fun with Liberal Media Bias And I don’t think many people take Glen Beck that seriously… even Glen Beck. He’s entertaining, but his stories are still as biased as the ones you would watch on CNN or CNBC. But like all tv shows that we find offensive, perhaps the best solution is to stop watching it.

As a domestic looking at an example of foreign conception of what’s happening here, I have to say it is really amusing. I love these great descriptors like "lizard lady," "Asians in black pajamas," etc. I remember visiting relative in Italy once and they were dead set on seeing Americans as rustics who were still in the firm grip of the civil rights movement. Americans for all intents and purposes listened to bluegrass and wore cowboy hats. LOL! But there are a few foreigners that understand American affairs more than Americans do, so go figure. I feel the sudden urge to buy a horse,12 gallon hat, and a pack of smooth-flavored Laramie cigarettes.

[RDRDRD1]

Coming from the nation that coined descriptors like Freedom Fries and Surrender Monkeys, that's pretty rich. And no, I don't see Americans as rustics in cowboy hats listening to bluegrass. I have travelled your country quite widely, north to south, east to west. My very best friend of four decades is one of your countrymen whoI met when we attended university together, again in your country, back when Americans were very much obsessed with Asians in black pyjamas.