Socialism (Moved from Grapes of Wrath)

[xris]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

Its an argumentative tactic. Show that a certain accepted opinion entails a certain unacceptable consequence. I never thought that you would accept those consequences, rather I thought that by showing those to be the consequences of your political viewpoint, you would abandon your viewpoint.

I posit that no government has been able to act without placating the empowered, and the history of state interference into free enterprise has at all points served to stratify society and entrench the wealthy. I can support this view with historical accounts from both socialists and capitalists alike. For support see any treatment of historical materialism by Marx, see The Triumph of Conservatism by leftist historian Gabriel Kolko, or for a abbreviated reading consult "The Iron Fist Behind the Invisible Hand" by modern-day socialist and mutualist Kevin Carson.

I will relinquish my position that your political prescriptions lead to the inevitable consequence of centralizing political and economic power amongst a privileged and parasitical few if you can offer ONE INSTANCE where real socio-economic change has been caused by state action without that consequence.

Just like there has been no true capitalists country, as you claim, so there has been no true socialist economy.I gave Norway as the ideal moderate socialist country where these problems never arose but then you gave the US as socialist country,fascist germany was also placed at my door step, how can debate with that point of view.Its like debating with two schizophrenics, who cant decide what economies they are supporting and who is actually a socialist or a capitalist.

[EmperorNero]

Originally Posted by xris

I gave Norway as the ideal moderate socialist country where these problems never arose

That's like saying that Paris Hilton has no financial trouble, so being a hotel heiress is a great career choice.
Well, we can't be Paris Hilton.

[xris]

Originally Posted by EmperorNero

That's like saying that Paris Hilton has no financial trouble, so being a hotel heiress is a great career choice.
Well, we can't be Paris Hilton.

So give me an example of capitalism that you admire?smarty pants..

[EmperorNero]

Originally Posted by xris

So give me an example of capitalism that you admire?smarty pants..

The US. It's the most capitalist and it offers the most freedom and equality. Coincidence?

[xris]

Originally Posted by EmperorNero

The US. It's the most capitalist and it offers the most freedom and equality. Coincidence?

Oh my oh my ..just confer with your friend..it was not that long ago he said it was not a capitalist state but socialist and you agreed...oh my oh my..bye.

[EmperorNero]

Originally Posted by xris

Oh my oh my ..just confer with your friend..it was not that long ago he said it was not a capitalist state but socialist and you agreed...oh my oh my..bye.

Do you live in an all-or-nothing world? It's about degree. The US is more capitalist. It's not fully capitalist, he is absolutely right.
I'm telling you, the more capitalism, the more freedom.
http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum...1&d=1241619920

[Mr. Fight the Power]

Originally Posted by xris

Just like there has been no true capitalists country, as you claim, so there has been no true socialist economy.I gave Norway as the ideal moderate socialist country where these problems never arose but then you gave the US as socialist country,fascist germany was also placed at my door step, how can debate with that point of view.Its like debating with two schizophrenics, who cant decide what economies they are supporting and who is actually a socialist or a capitalist.

Norway is the third largest oil exporter in the world despite being the 115th most populace. It is wealthier than the US. They produced half a barrel of oil per day per person in 2007, and exported three-quarters of a barrel of oil per day per person in 2008.

It is by far the richest country in the world in terms of resources. George Bush Jr. and a team of monkeys could lead that nation to economic success.

---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ----------

Originally Posted by xris

Oh my oh my ..just confer with your friend..it was not that long ago he said it was not a capitalist state but socialist and you agreed...oh my oh my..bye.

Quote me please.

[EmperorNero]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

Norway is the third largest oil exporter in the world despite being the 115th most populace. It is wealthier than the US. They produced half a barrel of oil per day per person in 2007, and exported three-quarters of a barrel of oil per day per person in 2008.

It is by far the richest country in the world in terms of resources.
George Bush Jr. and a team of monkeys could lead that nation to economic success.

hehehe
How did you like my Paris Hilton analogy?

[Mr. Fight the Power]

Originally Posted by EmperorNero

hehehe
How did you like my Paris Hilton analogy?

Quite apt.

The key to successful socialism, (and Norway is close, even though it is a mixed economy it has a great deal of nationalization) is to produce a massive amount of oil. I don't see why every nation doesn't follow that model.

[EmperorNero]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

Quite apt.

The key to successful socialism, (and Norway is close, even though it is a mixed economy it has a great deal of nationalization) is to produce a massive amount of oil.

Don't forget that the US and some larger European nations are subsidizing Norway by in essence protecting
it militarily and allowing Norway to barely spend any money on military and instead on socialism.