Socialism (Moved from Grapes of Wrath)

[Mr. Fight the Power]

Originally Posted by xris

Its you that has been judgemental about my personal views.When did i say men should be leashed like dogs,poetic nonsense.
Anarchy is by the general accepted view, tribal and cares little for those who cant survive.Its jungle politics and an extension of capitalism without government intervention to its excesses.
I recognise what humanity is capable of ,history is littered with examples thats why advocate a social conscience approach.

I have been judgmental about your personal views as moral views, even to the most devout relativist, cannot pass by without judgment.

And your vision of free society is one that is dog-eat-dog and in desperate need of someone with your moral insight to keep the dogs in line.

[xris]

Originally Posted by EmperorNero

So you want to abolish fires? How are you going to do that?

So you wish to rid humanity of greed? How will you do that?

I cant rid the world of murder, lust or any other base instinct but i can by example and hoped for regulation stop its excesses.I have a demand that i respect my morals and help those less fortunate than me.Im not high on the pecking order of monetary advantage because i have never strive for its advantages.I see others who by birth have never had the advantage of even a desiring for greater achievement.We are born and by chance excel or fail, by nature or nurture fail or succeed.We should realise that we are lucky or luckless by the storks impartial planting of our birth.

[Mr. Fight the Power]

Originally Posted by EmperorNero

So you want to abolish fires? How are you going to do that?

So you wish to rid humanity of greed? How will you do that?

Its very simple. People cannot be greedy if they cannot do what they want.

Once people are no longer allowed to act naturally, we will be free from human nature!

[xris]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

I have been judgmental about your personal views as moral views, even to the most devout relativist, cannot pass by without judgment.

And your vision of free society is one that is dog-eat-dog and in desperate need of someone with your moral insight to keep the dogs in line.
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---------- Post added at 04:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------

[/color]You give the US economy as an example of socialism and it does not represent capitalism at all.Well what can i say? So you can point to examples of true socialism and condemn its value but not this wonderful Utopian capitalist wonderland because no examples exist.It reminds me so much of that fictional land of never never.
You sound like a politician prone to making unsubstantiated claims about another's politics without questioning the details.Poetic analogies for effect and your admirers applause.

[/quote]i think this needs a ajusting..

---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

I have been judgmental about your personal views as moral views, even to the most devout relativist, cannot pass by without judgment.

And your vision of free society is one that is dog-eat-dog and in desperate need of someone with your moral insight to keep the dogs in line.

And i think this needs explaining..

[Mr. Fight the Power]

And i think this needs explaining..

How many times have you referred to the free system I espouse a "dog-eat-dog" society. You are apparently firmly convinced that people will have no social conscious if it were not mandated to them by the state.

[EmperorNero]

Originally Posted by xris

I cant rid the world of murder, lust or any other base instinct but i can by example and hoped for regulation stop its excesses.

So individual freedom is bad, because it allows people to act immoral, ah. I think I get you now. You are advocating fascism.

You should be happy, such outdated notions as freedom and are on their way out these days.
Freedom pfff...
A few right-wing extremists such as the founding fathers maybe cling to that old crap, but it's in the way of our authoritarian utopia.
The same with the Magna Carta, burn it.
Please place your jewelery on the table before entering the gas chamber. Sieg Heil!

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

You will be happy to hear that the UK, the nation that re-invented democracy for the modern world, has today officially abandoned freedom.

Michael Savage Banned From Entering UK: Country Publishes List Of People Not Allowed

[xris]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

How many times have you referred to the free system I espouse a "dog-eat-dog" society. You are apparently firmly convinced that people will have no social conscious if it were not mandated to them by the state.

Certain men will have moral values but those who dont usually are the most determined and society needs them to be controlled.

[Mr. Fight the Power]

Originally Posted by xris

Certain men will have moral values but those who dont usually are the most determined and society needs them to be controlled.

I disagree completely. They are just the most likely to abuse the system.

Your solution to these people (and the amazing thing is that you tacitly acknowledge this fact) is to give them more power to abuse the system.

[xris]

Originally Posted by EmperorNero

So individual freedom is bad, because it allows people to act immoral, ah. I think I get you now. You are advocating fascism.

You should be happy, such outdated notions as freedom and are on their way out these days.
Freedom pfff...
A few right-wing extremists such as the founding fathers maybe cling to that old crap, but it's in the way of our authoritarian utopia.
The same with the Magna Carta, burn it.
Please place your jewelery on the table before entering the gas chamber. Sieg Heil!

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

You will be happy to hear that the UK, the nation that re-invented democracy for the modern world, has today officially abandoned freedom.

Michael Savage Banned From Entering UK: Country Publishes List Of People Not Allowed

Your starting to sound like your emotions are out of control.My fathers, recent fathers, fought for the freedoms to condemn the excesses of capitalism.We suffered more than most from the industrial revolution that forced children down coal mines and killed children in those satanic mills.When your uncles teeth drop out through malnutrition while the wealthy picnicked in full view of his suffering....dont tell me about freedom.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

I disagree completely. They are just the most likely to abuse the system.

Your solution to these people (and the amazing thing is that you tacitly acknowledge this fact) is to give them more power to abuse the system.

Those with moral values will abuse the systemi would by laws allow them more freedom to abuse the systemi am at a loss to understand your comments.I think you and your comrade had better sit down quietly and contemplate your views.

[EmperorNero]

Please, please, please xris. I know it's hard to admit realities that go against your world view. But you have to let go of that stuff. It just does not add up. This was explained to you by people more eloquent than me throughout pages. They take time out of their day to explain this to you, and you won't acknowledge the facts before you. That is very rude.

You can still be compassionate and moral. But you have to admit that you only have the choices freedom or fascism. There is no other way out.
Learning means moving on to a better explanation when more information becomes available.
Please consider what these people have told you. You can still be compassionate and moral.

Studies show the brain is wired to get a quick high from reading things that
agree with our point of view. The same studies proved that, strangely, we also
get a rush from intentionally dismissing information that disagrees, no matter
how well supported it is.
Political bias affects brain activity, study finds - LiveScience- msnbc.com