The Nature of Sleep

[richrf]

Hi everyone,

For some time, I have been contemplating the nature of sleep. It strikes me as interesting as to how consciousness slips from one state of time and space into another state of no time and no space. Instantaneously in and instantaneously out. Same mind different way of perceiving. The only philosopher that I have read who has really discussed this at all is my favorite Heraclitus. Are there others? Any thoughts?

Rich

[Hermes]

I would like to know about sleep and consciousness, the only philosopher who springs to mind on the subject is Freud, whom I haven't read for ages. I do not know Heraclitus, in which work does he talk of sleep?

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Hermes

I would like to know about sleep and consciousness, the only philosopher who springs to mind on the subject is Freud, whom I haven't read for ages. I do not know Heraclitus, in which work does he talk of sleep?

Hi Hermes,

Very litte of Heraclitus's work has survived. You can Google "heraclitus fragments" to look over what he has to say. It is very limited.

The best of contemporary sources for dreams is probably Jung.

Hope this helps.

Rich

[Alan McDougall]

Originally Posted by richrf

Hi everyone,

For some time, I have been contemplating the nature of sleep. It strikes me as interesting as to how consciousness slips from one state of time and space into another state of no time and no space. Instantaneously in and instantaneously out. Same mind different way of perceiving. The only philosopher that I have read who has really discussed this at all is my favorite Heraclitus. Are there others? Any thoughts?

Rich

Hi Rich
Are we not just sleeping monads to entities more highly evolved than us, thus our awake state equates to their sleeping state?. Or do other entities from some lower awake dimension leak into our awareness. Upward infinitely, and downwards infinitely.

There is no end to division, a quark can be split into a half quark, just like our universe might be only a single quark in another universe of unimaginable,unspeakable enormity

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Alan McDougall

Hi Rich
Are we not just sleeping monads to entities more highly evolved than us, thus our awake state equates to their sleeping state?. Or do other entities from some lower awake dimension leak into our awareness. Upward infinitely, and downwards infinitely.

There is no end to division, a quark can be split into a half quark, just like our universe might be only a single quark in another universe of unimaginable,unspeakable enormity

Hi Alan,

From which fundamental concept to you arrive at this idea? It might help me better understand your train of thought.

Sleep is perplexing no matter which way I cut it. Just the idea that the mind can switch from one to the other state of sleep and awake.

Rich

[Alan McDougall]

Originally Posted by richrf

Hi Alan,

From which fundamental concept to you arrive at this idea? It might help me better understand your train of thought.

Sleep is perplexing no matter which way I cut it. Just the idea that the mind can switch from one to the other state of sleep and awake.

Rich

It is not fundamentalism just my me speculating,Monads is a term for sentient life I picked up somewhere, I will look it up and report back

Here it is as promised

Monadology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(III) Composite substances or matter are "actually sub-divided without end" and have the properties of their infinitesimal parts (§65). Some understanding how this is possible has been provided by the recent development of fractals.


A notorious passage (§67) explains that "each portion of matter can be conceived as like a garden full of plants, or like a pond full of fish. But each branch of a plant, each organ of an animal, each drop of its bodily fluids is also a similar garden or a similar pond".

There are no interactions between different monads nor between entelechies and their bodies but everything is regulated by the pre-established harmony (§§78-9). Leibniz concludes that "if we could understand the order of the universe well enough, we would find that it surpasses all the wishes of the wisest people, and that it is impossible to make it better than it is — not merely in respect of the whole in general, but also in respect of ourselves in particular" (§90).
"Monads, Centers of Consciousness" by G. de Purucker

However deeply the mind plunges into the abysses of thought, it will never reach anything more than an ever-expanding consciousness of itself: the ultimate Self, the god within, the atman. This is the monad.



This is the perpetual individual, the spiritual individuality, the indivisible part of us. The heart of the monad, its superior fountain of life and intelligence, is a divine monad, the inner god. But the word monad is used in a general way for a variety of consciousness centers in man.



There is the spiritual monad, offspring of the divine monad; there is the human monad, offspring of the spiritual monad; there is the vital-astral monad, offspring of the human monad. All these together form the human constitution.

Each such monad, no matter what its grade, is an evolving entity. All that we are as human beings we derive ultimately from the monadic essence which is surrounding the inmost. Our spiritual intelligence, our instincts for noble thinking, for kindly and brotherly action, the impulses to compassion which fill our hearts, the love which so dignifies us, the loftiest intuitions which our nature is capable of -- all these are derivative from and rooted in the monad.



The spiritual monad, which is the 'heart' of the reincarnating ego, is itself rooted in the divine monad or inner god, the deathless part of us. Without the influence or rays from the monad streaming into our human consciousness, we should be merely human beasts. The monad would be there, though inactive, and we should indeed be humans, but spiritually darkened and unawakened.



Just information I don't subscribe to it










Monadology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(III) Composite substances or matter are "actually sub-divided without end" and have the properties of their infinitesimal parts (§65). Some understanding how this is possible has been provided by the recent development of fractals. A notorious passage (§67) explains that "each portion of matter can be conceived as like a garden full of plants, or like a pond full of fish. But each branch of a plant, each organ of an animal, each drop of its bodily fluids is also a similar garden or a similar pond".
There are no interactions between different monads nor between entelechies and their bodies but everything is regulated by the pre-established harmony (§§78-9). Leibniz concludes that "if we could understand the order of the universe well enough, we would find that it surpasses all the wishes of the wisest people, and that it is impossible to make it better than it is — not merely in respect of the whole in general, but also in respect of ourselves in particular" (§90).
"Monads, Centers of Consciousness" by G. de Purucker

However deeply the mind plunges into the abysses of thought, it will never reach anything more than an ever-expanding consciousness of itself: the ultimate Self, the god within, the atman. This is the monad. This is the perpetual individual, the spiritual individuality, the indivisible part of us. The heart of the monad, its superior fountain of life and intelligence, is a divine monad, the inner god. But the word monad is used in a general way for a variety of consciousness centers in man. There is the spiritual monad, offspring of the divine monad; there is the human monad, offspring of the spiritual monad; there is the vital-astral monad, offspring of the human monad. All these together form the human constitution.

Each such monad, no matter what its grade, is an evolving entity. All that we are as human beings we derive ultimately from the monadic essence which is surrounding the inmost. Our spiritual intelligence, our instincts for noble thinking, for kindly and brotherly action, the impulses to compassion which fill our hearts, the love which so dignifies us, the loftiest intuitions which our nature is capable of -- all these are derivative from and rooted in the monad. The spiritual monad, which is the 'heart' of the reincarnating ego, is itself rooted in the divine monad or inner god, the deathless part of us. Without the influence or rays from the monad streaming into our human consciousness, we should be merely human beasts. The monad would be there, though inactive, and we should indeed be humans, but spiritually darkened and unawakened.





Monadology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(III) Composite substances or matter are "actually sub-divided without end" and have the properties of their infinitesimal parts (§65). Some understanding how this is possible has been provided by the recent development of fractals. A notorious passage (§67) explains that "each portion of matter can be conceived as like a garden full of plants, or like a pond full of fish. But each branch of a plant, each organ of an animal, each drop of its bodily fluids is also a similar garden or a similar pond".
There are no interactions between different monads nor between entelechies and their bodies but everything is regulated by the pre-established harmony (§§78-9). Leibniz concludes that "if we could understand the order of the universe well enough, we would find that it surpasses all the wishes of the wisest people, and that it is impossible to make it better than it is — not merely in respect of the whole in general, but also in respect of ourselves in particular" (§90).
"Monads, Centers of Consciousness" by G. de Purucker

However deeply the mind plunges into the abysses of thought, it will never reach anything more than an ever-expanding consciousness of itself: the ultimate Self, the god within, the atman. This is the monad. This is the perpetual individual, the spiritual individuality, the indivisible part of us. The heart of the monad, its superior fountain of life and intelligence, is a divine monad, the inner god. But the word monad is used in a general way for a variety of consciousness centers in man. There is the spiritual monad, offspring of the divine monad; there is the human monad, offspring of the spiritual monad; there is the vital-astral monad, offspring of the human monad. All these together form the human constitution.

Each such monad, no matter what its grade, is an evolving entity. All that we are as human beings we derive ultimately from the monadic essence which is surrounding the inmost. Our spiritual intelligence, our instincts for noble thinking, for kindly and brotherly action, the impulses to compassion which fill our hearts, the love which so dignifies us, the loftiest intuitions which our nature is capable of -- all these are derivative from and rooted in the monad. The spiritual monad, which is the 'heart' of the reincarnating ego, is itself rooted in the divine monad or inner god, the deathless part of us. Without the influence or rays from the monad streaming into our human consciousness, we should be merely human beasts. The monad would be there, though inactive, and we should indeed be humans, but spiritually darkened and unawakened.






Peace

[parker pyne]

Aren't dreams a form of consciousness?

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Alan McDougall

The spiritual monad, which is the 'heart' of the reincarnating ego, is itself rooted in the divine monad or inner god, the deathless part of us. Without the influence or rays from the monad streaming into our human consciousness, we should be merely human beasts. The monad would be there, though inactive, and we should indeed be humans, but spiritually darkened and unawakened.


Just information I don't subscribe to it

Hi Alan,

It is an interesting idea that we are individual, sleepy monads of more evolved awake entities. The idea that we are disconnected from everything but somehow acting in a harmonious manner seems to me to be unnecessary but it is an attempt to describe individuality and attributes. I believe a ocean with waves accomplishes the same purpose without having to resort to figuring out how harmony comes to disconnected monads.

But the overall thought of being part of more evolved entities is nonetheless interesting and may be a path toward better understanding how consciousness switches between states of sleep and awake. Thanks.

Bentov actually builds a similar model of evolved entities. His book may be worth a re-visit for me.

Rich

---------- Post added 07-04-2009 at 08:30 AM ----------

Originally Posted by parker pyne

Aren't dreams a form of consciousness?

Hi Parker,

For me, it would be. For others, maybe not. It depends upon your own metaphysical view.

The question that I am considering is how does consciousness switch itself between the different states. Pop! Sleep. Pop! Awake. And why are the states of consciousness so different?

Rich

[xris]

Originally Posted by parker pyne

Aren't dreams a form of consciousness?

They appear to explore all eventualities our waking mind refuses to entertain.

[YumClock]

I am not very familiar with the Holographic Principle of the Universe, but it had a very interesting notion of sleep:
Dreams (especially lucid dreams) are actually occuring in a different plane of existence.
The backing was that the Universe is truly only a hologram, and thus it literally changes on the way you look at it, like walking around a light hologram.
So you are simply looking at the back of the image whenever you fall asleep.