English Language Reforms

[Emil]

Originally Posted by Aedes

It doesn't matter -- do you speak French? Do you have any idea how many written characters go unpronounced? Travaillent is pronounced "travai". They seem to be doing ok.

I don't speak french, no. I'm familiar with danish which also has lots of unnecessary letters. Danish, like english, lacks a recent language reform.

That they are doing ok is not a good reason to believe that there english could not be improved by removing unnecessary letters.

---------- Post added 12-07-2009 at 07:00 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Aedes

I agree it's cumbersome. I don't agree it's worth changing.

For a native speaker it's not cumbersome at all -- it is what it is.

For someone learning the language, it's a different matter. If you know another Romance language, then the current French spelling is extremely easy because the conjugation is basically the same as in Spanish, Italian, etc, and it might be harder to learn if you just "simplified" the words. If you don't know another Romance language, it sure seems cumbersome.

And it is cumbersome. That native speakers don't notice it is not a good reason to believe that it is not cumbersome. Indeed the best way, it seems to me, to learn the cumbersomeness of our native language is to study a different language. I've learned a lot about danish by learning german. That is an interesting fact.

Originally Posted by Aedes

But whom are we trying to help by simplifying words? "Lite" has become somewhat standard; does that mean we'll all have a "rite" hand?

Everyone. The alphabetic principle especially helps non-natives. Many people are presumably an-alphabetic because of poor language.

Originally Posted by Aedes

Sometimes just letting things take their own course is better than trying to force them.

Maybe, but irrelevant until it has been shown that it is the case with language. It has merely been stated, repeated and re-mentioned in this thread. I doubt (notice this word, how is someone supposed to know that the B is mute?) that any arguments are coming forth for this anytime soon. People are reluctant to argue but simply state their disagreement. It is like discussing politics.

[Aedes]

Ok Emil, so instead of codifying changes that happen naturally and rise up from common speech, would you rather convene a linguistic oligarchy to hand us all new rules?

How's that metric system coming on here in the States, by the way? That's a FAR simpler system than the English system we use, it's logical, it's intuitive, it's predictable -- and yet it just has never caught on. This would be infinitely harder if people just slashed and diced English into "thru" instead of "through".

[Emil]

Originally Posted by Aedes

Ok Emil, so instead of codifying changes that happen naturally and rise up from common speech, would you rather convene a linguistic oligarchy to hand us all new rules?

What does this mean?

Originally Posted by Aedes

How's that metric system coming on here in the States, by the way? That's a FAR simpler system than the English system we use, it's logical, it's intuitive, it's predictable -- and yet it just has never caught on. This would be infinitely harder if people just slashed and diced English into "thru" instead of "through".

I don't know how it is coming. What is your point?

[xris]

Emil we have constantly given you valid reasons why we don't think its a good idea. You have failed to convince anyone. Why do you constantly say we give opinions rather than arguments? If it was rhetoric you would have no need to reply.

[salima]

i learned hindi and it is totally a phonetic language but that doesnt stop native people from making mistakes in grammar. also i notice that the order in which they repeat their alphabet does not match the order words are written in the dictionary. the funniest thing of all is that i havent yet met anyone here who actually knows the order of words in the dictionary, they just look around randonly trying to find a word in it.

so about the only reason for there to be a rule for spelling is to list things alphabetically as far as i can see. otherwise, it hardly matters how a person spells a word as long as we can understand what they mean. certainly people misspell words, but i have not found that a problem in knowing which word they were using.

now if changing spelling means we have to rewrite all the dictionaries, and change all the computer software for spellcheck etc, and probably other things i have yet to think of, is it really worth it? (i dont know the answer to that by the way)

i think the problem seems to be for people who are able to spell properly who find it annoying that other people make mistakes. maybe a little more tolerance would help?