Philosophy in School!

[Holiday20310401]

Should there be philosophy courses in high school? Does it seem ethical?
Lets pretend that there would be enough students interested unless you think otherwise, like me.

Philosophy allows for intellect instead of the gathering of knowledge which I see students lacking. All I hear my classmates talking about is a reflection of the MSN conversation they had yesterday, or that game that just came out on xbox. So I believe that innovative advancement could potentially slow down. English class, to me isn't really good enough. It deals more with formal logic which always ends up dealing with books that have been analysed for the past 100 years anyways. We need debates and informal reasoning, its much more fun than memorizing formulas or reading books that I could read on my own time at home.
Highschool is an opportunity for teens to be all together in a classroom, there isn't any other place where that happens, so why no take the opportunity for us to argue our opinions and gain eachother's insight while coalesced.
Does philosophy class seem ethical to you?

[GoshisDead]

Some high schools have philosophy courses, of course, most do not. The main reason I would assume that high schools avoid formal philosophy is that it is not practical or trade driven. The trend in modern education, especially in America, is towards vocational teaching. The core college prep curriculum is still maintained but non core classes are less and less abstract and/or artistic.

Many here would probably argue that philosophy is more of a science than an art, and really it is neither, however most people in education functionally perceive it as an art, inasmuch as it is deemed esoteric, undefinable, and most of all impractical. This being said, I would love to send my kids to a school where Philosophy was a core curriculum class. Its practicality lies not in its ability to measure, define, interpret, or prove; its practicality is contained in its own process. Philosophy, when taught and practiced well trains a mind much in the way exercise trains the body. If a teacher would like a student to think for him/herself, find new and creative ways to solve problems teach her philosophy.

At the peril of ranting, the third reason philosophy is probably not taught in high school is because unlike sciences humanities and vocational classes there is no definitive right and wrong when it comes to testing. In a different vein, unlike the arts, formal philosophy cannot be judged on pure aesthetic theory. Thus the evaluative testing/performances required by state and federal law become very difficult, especially if philosophy is taught right by the teacher and practiced right by the student.

[urangutan]

Nice one GoshisDead. Are you saying in the term 'teach her philosophy', teach the teacher or the pupil.

I don't know Holiday. I don't feel that learning philosophy is reading Plato or Socrates and understanding it. I don't imagine that any of them were great philosophers at sixteen and being philosophical is more of an awakening than being indoctrinated.

I imagine that it would be wiser to teach children philosophically rather than teach them philosophy. It could be applied to a broader spectrum of education.

[Khethil]

There's a practical side to philosophy that can benefit just about anyone. I think its a great idea. Presented properly, it can have tremendous benefits for young adults and the adult society they'll ultimately comprise.

[Critz]

To work on what was being said above- in this wonderfully politically correct world of ours, when there is highschool philosophy class, it is NOTHING like what im assuming you wan't it to be. In Catholic school, for example, you would study and memorize 10 reasons why god exists (no, im not making that up)- little room for debate, and the rest of the course proceeds much the same way. In public school, however, philosophy was little more then a more specialized history course, where only the concrete was taught (irony?) such as the life of famous philosophers, dates, and very brief overviews of individual beliefs.
Aswell, marking the course would (I'de assume) be hell on earth. Would the mark be based in participation and the logic you use in essays? Unless teachers have something concrete to stick too, the marking scheme would probably be highly reliant on favoritism and the loudest arguer. And concrete is hardley something that should ever be used to describe philosophy today.

[Deftil]

I definitely feel that some general, at least survey-like philosophy courses should be taught at the high school level.

Thinking philosophically can be a fun and useful skill to have. When I was younger, I thought I was interested in philosophy, but my interests in it quickly fell by the wayside because they weren't nurtured in school. I kind of feel like that is a shame.

Somewhat specifically, I find that philosophical thought and a knowledge of the history of philosophical thought can be particularly useful in regards to political thought, something I think all citizens should do at least some of. To be blunt, I feel that a lot of Americans are politically ignorant, and this can be attributed in part to the fact that they haven't been properly acquainted with philosophical thinking.

I'm reminded of the proverb "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
Instead of just giving them knowledge, which is useful, but most of which they will forget, we could also give them the ability to think and learn for themselves, which is a skill that they can benefit from throughout their lifetime.

Do you think many Americans would have concerns about high school philosophy classes possibly fostering atheism or agnosticism in children, and therefore oppose it? I mean so many people have a problem with evolution being taught in school, I have to wonder.

[Victor Eremita]

It's probably not safe to discuss theological questions in high school; besides that, survey courses in metaphysics, epistemology, and history of philosophy are good non-politically charged topics.

My city's school board has an agreement with one of the universities. Grade 11 or 12 students can take Philosophy 12 and learn metaphysics, epistemology, and the history of philosophy from Plato to Derrida. When they pass the final exam, they earn transfer credit for 1st year philosophy. (this was probably the selling point for keeners to get ahead in their studies lol)

They didn't have this when I was in high school. Oh well, good for the students anyways.

[Theaetetus]

A basic logic course should be taught in high school along with a survey course that pertains to the history of philosophy. The class would pretty much be structured like this: here are a bunch of philosophers that lived during these dates. Here is what they had to say. There is no reason why this could not work in a pre-college school setting.

Ethics is another subject that could be taught to advanced high school juniors and seniors. Hell, everyone should be trained to look at many different perspectives ethically. Maybe people's interpersonal relationships would improve as a result.

[urangutan]

I somehow think that many of you are missing the point of an education. To start teaching higher school students philosophy, is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Most students do not go on with an education for the myriad of reasons that exist, of which less that do, will continue the line of study that you so wish to enrich them with and your only point of salvation is that an even less percent will ever read again but they can be counted on, to look at the work that they do read in a different light. Ever tried fishing off a bridge that spans a great flowing river.

In New Zealand they are farming Tuna that they catch in nets then travel across the sea to the farming grounds and every now and again they have to enter the netted area to release sharks that have entered and are feeding on the prey. You have children in the farm for anything up to twelve or thirteen years, why wait till the end to enlighten them, when you can show them the path to enlightenment the whole time.

[Theaetetus]

Its no more a waste of tax payers money teaching survey to philosophy courses to the students than literature, history, psychology, or any of the other arts or social sciences. Hell the argument could also be made that the same things are taught in cycles thus wasting tax payer money. The way math is taught best demonstrates this. Rather than learning 6x = 42 alongside 6 x 7 = ? students are taught the only thing that is important is the answer. Thus, students hit algebra and they are totally lost. The have no clue because the logic that they are trained with no longer makes sense.

The point is that school raises a bunch of easy to train for menial task automatons. They reason being is that most people are ok with underfunding education so that is all the system is really capable of doing. Of course, giving more money to bureaucrats that have no idea how to educate people to fix the system will only make it worse.