Is omniscience compatible with human freedom?

[kennethamy]

Whether omniscience is (logically) compatible with human freedom is an ancient philosophical and theological question. Many have thought it is obvious that it is not compatible, but that is not at all so obvious on analysis. In any case, discussion of this question can teach us a lot about knowledge and logic, so if even if it has been discussed before, it is worth discussing again.

[prothero]

What do you mean by "omniscience"?
and
What do you mean by "human freedom"?

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by prothero

What do you mean by "omniscience"?
and
What do you mean by "human freedom"?

Omniscience= knowing everything, especially what will happen in the future. (God has this power).
Human freedom= the ability to have done otherwise.

[fast]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Omniscience= knowing everything, especially what will happen in the future. (God has this power).

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Human freedom= the ability to have done otherwise.

My girlfriend knew what I was going to do today, and I did exactly what she knew I would, and even though she knew that I was going to do what I did, I could have nevertheless done otherwise. Of course, had I done otherwise, it wouldn't be the case that she knew but only thought she knew, but that doesn't matter.

That I won't do otherwise isn't to say that I couldn't do otherwise. If you know what I'm going to do, then I'm going to do what you know I will, but that I will isn't to say I must. I think this has to do with the modal fallacy.

P1: the answer is either a, b, c, or d.
P2: the answer is not a, b, or c.
Therefore, C: the answer is d.

That is correct, but the following is not:

P1: the answer is either a, b, c, or d.
P2: the answer is not a, b, or c.
Therefore, C: the answer must be d.

It's not the case that the answer must be d. We have to remember that even though a proposition is true, that is not to say that it's a necessary truth, for some truths are contingent truths.

That my girlfriend knew what I was going to do isn't to say that I must do what I will. It may be the case (and is often the case) that I will do what I will do without it being the case that I must do what I will.

Short answer: yes, they're compatible.

[xris]

I have the habit of watching the same video over and over again, if it is really good. I thought after the second time the hero would realise not to walk through that green door. He appears like an actor acting out his script, oh but he is.

Now if we could watch the script you wrote for yourself with all the ability of your free will, before you wrote it ...would it still remain your ability to exert your free will if we knew before what the script would be.... wot u did .. but not yet.. that is..ohhh my head hurts..

[fast]

Originally Posted by xris

I have the habit of watching the same video over and over again, if it is really good. I thought after the second time the hero would realise not to walk through that green door. He appears like an actor acting out his script, oh but he is.

Now if we could watch the script you wrote for yourself with all the ability of your free will, before you wrote it ...would it still remain your ability to exert your free will if we knew before what the script would be.... wot u did .. but not yet.. that is..ohhh my head hurts..

That I will do what I will do is not to say that I must do what I will do. You actually think that I speed up and down the highway because I must? Maybe I shouldn't be held morally responsible for any accidents since I could not have done otherwise. But, I could have done otherwise! I could have chosen not to speed. There was nothing compelling me to speed. Yes, there was a cause, but there was no compulsion, and since there was no compulsion, I did what I did of my own free will.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by xris

I have the habit of watching the same video over and over again, if it is really good. I thought after the second time the hero would realise not to walk through that green door. He appears like an actor acting out his script, oh but he is.

Now if we could watch the script you wrote for yourself with all the ability of your free will, before you wrote it ...would it still remain your ability to exert your free will if we knew before what the script would be.... wot u did .. but not yet.. that is..ohhh my head hurts..

What "script" do you think I am following? I am not an actor in a video. It is up to me what I do, not some script. But that is a different issue, whether there is free will. The question posed is whether free will is compatible with God knowing what you are going to do. Remember, as fast points out, I can know what you are going to do, but that does not mean that what you do is not up to you. So why should God's knowing what you will do be any different?

[xris]

I think you agree with me.... If my life was recorded with all my ability of free will. My life and its decisions would be mine...Now take that recording and take it back in time..You watch it and you know my life, my decisions, because you are privy to my life does it mean you influenced it? I dont think so, omniscience does not indicate my will is jeopardized.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by xris

I think you agree with me.... If my life was recorded with all my ability of free will. My life and its decisions would be mine...Now take that recording and take it back in time..You watch it and you know my life, my decisions, because you are privy to my life does it mean you influenced it? I dont think so, omniscience does not indicate my will is jeopardized.

Yes. God can know what you will do of your own free will, and know that you will do it of your own free will. But then, His knowledge is not incompatible with free will. But is that possible?

[xris]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Yes. God can know what you will do of your own free will, and know that you will do it of your own free will. But then, His knowledge is not incompatible with free will. But is that possible?

I have no idea but the logic of it, in my opinion is correct. Im only replying to the idea of omniscience. Something is everywhere, at all times and the knowledge of everything is out there, if it is held by all or by one , is the question.