Is omniscience compatible with human freedom?

[xris]

I tried earlier to give my view in the way of an analogy. Imagine watching a film of your life after you have lived and died. Could you change it or just observe it? Now imagine, if it was possible for us to watch that film before you had lived it, as long as we only observe, it should allow your free will, your free will is intact.

Time and its consequences are far from clear. Imagine looking at your life as a panorama , being able to observe the complete sequence of events. The begining and the end would be seen as a whole and the temptation to judge would cease to be necessary. We acted as our life developed and we lived it to our ability.

[Reconstructo]

I question whether the concept of Free Will makes sense in the first place. What is will if not the desire to something and what is freedom if not the absence of impediment?

Leaving omniscience out of the question, which is itself arguably unfathomable for a human being, I suggest we really look at this phrase "Free Will."

[ACB]

Originally Posted by xris

Now imagine, if it was possible for us to watch that film before you had lived it

That is what I am disputing. Is such a thing possible, even theoretically? The film analogy breaks down there, because such a thing can never happen in real life.

We need to ask:

1. Does the future already "exist" somehow? (Many people automatically assume it does - "time is an illusion" etc - but this is far from obvious.) If it does not, then it is currently nothing, so God does not need to know it in order to be omniscient.

2. If the future does already exist, does that imply predestination?

3. Is predestination compatible with free will?

[Emil]

Originally Posted by ACB

That is what I am disputing. Is such a thing possible, even theoretically? The film analogy breaks down there, because such a thing can never happen in real life.

I have no clue what this even means.

We need to ask:

1. Does the future already "exist" somehow? (Many people automatically assume it does - "time is an illusion" etc - but this is far from obvious.) If it does not, then it is currently nothing, so God does not need to know it in order to be omniscient.

What does it even mean to say that the future exists? Or that it doesn't?

To say that God, or whoever, knows the future means that God knows propositions about the future. The existence of 'the future' is irrelevant.

3. Is predestination compatible with free will?

Maybe. Clarify what predestination means, first.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by ACB

3. Is predestination compatible with free will?

Predestination is not compatible with free will. But how does that have anything to do with whether omniscience is compatible with free will?

---------- Post added 12-11-2009 at 07:44 PM ----------

Originally Posted by xris

I tried earlier to give my view in the way of an analogy. Imagine watching a film of your life after you have lived and died. Could you change it or just observe it? Now imagine, if it was possible for us to watch that film before you had lived it, as long as we only observe, it should allow your free will, your free will is intact.

Time and its consequences are far from clear. Imagine looking at your life as a panorama , being able to observe the complete sequence of events. The begining and the end would be seen as a whole and the temptation to judge would cease to be necessary. We acted as our life developed and we lived it to our ability.

Why do you think that is a correct analogy? If it is like a film then yes, there is no free will. But so what? You still have to show it is like a film. All of these analogies (puppet show) fail, because there is not reason to think the analogies are correct.

[Emil]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Predestination is not compatible with free will. But how does that have anything to do with whether omniscience is compatible with free will?

Why do you think that predestination is not compatible with free will?

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Emil

Why do you think that predestination is not compatible with free will?

Predestination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Reconstructo]

I suppose the issue is whether omniscience implies predestination. But isn't omniscience a tricky concept for those that lack it?

[Emil]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Predestination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's nice. But why do you believe it?

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Emil

That's nice. But why do you believe it?

I did not say I believe predestination is true. I just said that predestination is inconsistent with free will.