Logical Evaluation of Human Self

[Subjectivity9]

memester,

No we are talking about what exactly a visual field is, and not what your personal idea of the physical, or even mental, visual field is. You are not alone here. You cannot single handedly dismiss anything that doesn’t fit your favorite paradigm. Not fair.

The field of inquiry is as big as, and no bigger than, what each mind is capable of covering, or opening up too.

S9

---------- Post added 12-24-2009 at 03:31 PM ----------

Reconstructo,

Yes, very often metaphors can open up doors, and avenues into new territories of understanding. Perhaps this is because it combines pictorial thinking (Right Brain) and can bypass the gatekeeper (left brain) with its old habitual thinking. In this way, metaphor is a little like dreaming, and can sneak wisdom in under the radar. Could this be why poetry was called, “the language of the gods?”

However, it is my thought that, while the mind is busy with lineal/word thought and the most spacious pictorial thoughts, that there is something that stands completely free of both of these, and only allows them to dance their dance.

These are layers of consciousness, like the old adage about the onion with its mysterious empty center after peeling off all of its layers.

This is what I was getting at with Pathfinder earlier, that we do not even know what Life Is. It certainly isn’t simply a biological story. It isn’t just a physical manifestation, even if living things seem to fly out of it like sparks from a fire. What is this mysterious seemingly endless force, which is its own fuel?

If a single metaphor throws open our windows, we shouldn’t be surprised if a whole flock of metaphors fly in that same window. Wisdom does seem to want to be recognized.

S9

[Reconstructo]

Originally Posted by Subjectivity9

If a single metaphor throws open our windows, we shouldn’t be surprised if a whole flock of metaphors fly in that same window. Wisdom does seem to want to be recognized.
S9

The thing is, we can't even talk about wisdom or anything else without this logos and all its limits. So the finger points at the moon. We use words to describe the limitations of words.

[Subjectivity9]

Reconstructo,

This indeed, words do take us quite a way towards understanding wisdom, (the wisdom of how circular our thinking is) and yet they are the exact right tool for doing that, IMPO.

Words also cancel themselves out, because they are circular, (opposites are circular and our dualistic language is made up of opposites) and traveling in a circle actually goes nowhere.

Up describes down, and down describes up, but like you say they also limit each other, and don’t really tell us anything about where we are. Up to where? Down from where? That’s easy: “Up from down, and down from up.” ; ^ )

“A house of cards.” Gautama Buddha called this Co-dependent Arising.” ; ^ )

Transcendence is beyond talking. So like you say, “We point at the moon.” However, let us remember that the moon only reflects the Sun, burrows the Sun’s illumination. What do you think the Sun represents metaphysically?

S9

[memester]

Originally Posted by Subjectivity9

Reconstructo,

This indeed, words do take us quite a way towards understanding wisdom, (the wisdom of how circular our thinking is) and yet they are the exact right tool for doing that, IMPO.

Words also cancel themselves out, because they are circular, (opposites are circular and our dualistic language is made up of opposites) and traveling in a circle actually goes nowhere.

Up describes down, and down describes up, but like you say they also limit each other, and don’t really tell us anything about where we are. Up to where? Down from where? That’s easy: “Up from down, and down from up.” ; ^ )

“A house of cards.” Gautama Buddha called this Co-dependent Arising.” ; ^ )

Transcendence is beyond talking. So like you say, “We point at the moon.” However, let us remember that the moon only reflects the Sun, burrows the Sun’s illumination. What do you think the Sun represents metaphysically?

S9

Nah, it's not that "up" is "down" - that way of communicating leads to nonsense...it's that there can be a bottom to a top and a top to a bottom. As in a deck of cards..even the top card has a face and a back. Top and bottom of the top.

[Reconstructo]

Originally Posted by Subjectivity9

Reconstructo,

This indeed, words do take us quite a way towards understanding wisdom, (the wisdom of how circular our thinking is) and yet they are the exact right tool for doing that, IMPO.

Words also cancel themselves out, because they are circular, (opposites are circular and our dualistic language is made up of opposites) and traveling in a circle actually goes nowhere.

Up describes down, and down describes up, but like you say they also limit each other, and don’t really tell us anything about where we are. Up to where? Down from where? That’s easy: “Up from down, and down from up.” ; ^ )

“A house of cards.” Gautama Buddha called this Co-dependent Arising.” ; ^ )

Transcendence is beyond talking. So like you say, “We point at the moon.” However, let us remember that the moon only reflects the Sun, burrows the Sun’s illumination. What do you think the Sun represents metaphysically?

S9

Good post. I used the moon because it's an oldy, but the Sun I like better. The sun I would put at the top. Great symbol. The spherical golden source.

[Subjectivity9]

memester,

Up and down is a matter of perspective and convenience.

If I stand on the Empire State Building, just about everything seems to be down. If I stand way down in the Grand Canyon, just about everything seems to be up.

They don’t really exist in themselves, like, “Here, have a cup of up.” ; ^ )

S9

[memester]

Originally Posted by Subjectivity9

memester,

Up and down is a matter of perspective and convenience.

If I stand on the Empire State Building, just about everything seems to be down. If I stand way down in the Grand Canyon, just about everything seems to be up.
They don’t really exist in themselves, like, “Here, have a cup of up.” ; ^ )

S9

That's a big "nothing said".

[Reconstructo]

Originally Posted by Subjectivity9

Up and down is a matter of perspective and convenience.

I agree. Relativity! All the chatter about reality makes us forget that reality is an ideal concept like god. And the reality-clan likes to knock on god. To quote my man Hamlet: words, words, words. A foolosopher should sniff at these words. What is "truth" made of? Words. What are words made of? Other words.... Etymology hides the dirty secrets of all our contingent after-birth-dripping concepts...

[Subjectivity9]

Reconstructo,

I can agree with you that 'limited reality' is an ideal, mind made. Ultimate Reality is trans-mind.

God (as so often, commonly understood) is so obviously man-made that it is sad. These best and worst sides of our selves (as a species) are personified in God, and has become the justification for so much that "turns right around and bites us on the butt."

When the Mystics refer to God, it is an entirely different matter, altogether, as this thinly described God is actually what I call ‘Ultimate Truth’ (AKA ‘Ultimate Reality’), and bears little, or no resemblance to our mind-crazy species.

A foolosopher should not only sniff at his words, he should rip them to pieces, and make them stand on their heads. ; ^ ) Sort of like brainstorming. Very often, something comes visible that we couldn’t have expected.

I remember a friend telling me about a prediction for NYC, given the circumstances as they were and all of the horses necessary to get things done, back a ways), that lineally speaking, or predicting, we would all be up to our hips in horse dung by this year of our lord such/n/such.

; ^ )

But, sometimes creativity comes in one thing, or another (seemingly) small innovation, like the auto, which seemed only a toy for the rich at first. Yet, it changed everything drastically. Or not! Now, we are up to our hips in cars. (Technological dung)

Let us rather say that truth is made of thoughts, both words and pictures. Don’t forget our fellow traveler, the Right Brain.

R: Etymology hides the dirty secrets of all our contingent after-birth-dripping concepts...

S9: Wow, strong words my friend. That will give me sleepless nights, and a loss of appetite. ; ^ ) Actually, I liked them.

Just an aside:
A book that very much makes me think of you, and that I believe you would enjoy.

Crazy Wisdom by Wes "Scoop" Nisker

The best and wisest friend I have, just loves this book. (And it is full of great quotes from a vast variety of types, from the most profound mystic to the most observant of double-edged comedians)

S9
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