Know Thyself?

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by richrf

Yes, there are all kinds of unexpected things in life. It is a matter of adjusting.

Rich

I think you said that before, and I didn't understand what that had to do with what I said then, and that is still true. I would adjust to the bus driver intentionally taking me to where he was not supposed to take me, my doing my utmost to get him fired as an incompetent idiot.

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Absolution

In essence Socrates asks you to give up what you know, so you can look at what knowledge there may be from an unbiased stand point. There is heavy debate if people are able to do this, and I don't think there has been a well accepted conclusion on it. And it may be that one cannot exercise enough doubt to know thyself completely. But its a start and a noble effort, even if its endless, I believe.

Hi there,

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I'll give you my quick way of knowing myself: I just listen to how I criticize others. It works all the time. And if I want to know about another person, I just listen to their criticism of others. I got the idea from Oscar Wilde:

The highest, as the lowest, form of criticism is a mode of autobiography. [Picture of Dorian Gray]

And, yes, I agree it is endless. I am always exploring and learning, and changing myself in the process.

Rich

[Pathfinder]

The physical body is the point at which the continuing human consciousness connects with the origin of creation and its continuum.

[Absolution]

Originally Posted by richrf

Hi there,

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I'll give you my quick way of knowing myself: I just listen to how I criticize others. It works all the time. And if I want to know about another person, I just listen to their criticism of others. I got the idea from Oscar Wilde:

The highest, as the lowest, form of criticism is a mode of autobiography. [Picture of Dorian Gray]

And, yes, I agree it is endless. I am always exploring and learning, and changing myself in the process.

Rich

Ya, that is a good way. Because if you criticize someone, that means you are holding a certain assumption of your own as true or as philosophers like to say, knowledge. And that immediately reveals one's own knowledge. A guess in a way this makes a true doubter (or one that doesn't accept knowledge) incapable of criticism. Although I guess this can be circumvented if one has opinions but doesn't claim to knowledge, thus they are like a joker, have criticisms but never takes them seriously .

[richrf]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

I think you said that before, and I didn't understand what that had to do with what I said then, and that is still true. I would adjust to the bus driver intentionally taking me to where he was not supposed to take me, my doing my utmost to get him fired as an incompetent idiot.

Right. And that happens in Chicago all the time. So some people just get off the bus and decide on an alternate route. Some swear never to ride a bus again. In life, everything is a guess of probably outcomes. The mind and body are adjusting all the time. Even simple walking or viewing requires constant adjustment. We can only have intention. If the world blows up, all plans are blown to pieces.

Rich

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by richrf

Right. And that happens in Chicago all the time. So some people just get off the bus and decide on an alternate route. Some swear never to ride a bus again. In life, everything is a guess. The mind and body are adjusting all the time. Even simple walking or viewing requires constant adjustment.

Rich

Not here. That could explain a lot of things. Even Obama who doesn't appear to care where he is going either.

[Subjectivity9]

Thank you for joining us Absolution,

Doubt is certainly one of the modes of searching. The Zen masters call it the ‘Great Doubt,’ because they believe without it, no one is going anywhere.

The Christians had ‘Doubting Thomas.’ who insisted upon putting his fingers right into the wound of the Christ, isn’t that what we are doing?

Buddha said, “Don’t believe any thing just because I have told you so. Look for yourself.”

I heard that there is a theory out there, that language is innate to us and even genetically different in certain ways in different peoples. It was also said that, it would be literally impossible for a child to ingest so much information at such a young age, if this were not the case.

So is Enlightenment also a remembering?

Yes we have these inner dialogues, and we look without assumption in order to be receptive, but is there something already in us, Spiritually throwing on all of our lights?

Are you familiar with the phrase ‘The Gateless Gate?’

This is a Chinese belief that there is absolutely nothing in our way, no obscuration. Makes you wonder, does it not, how could this be? I think that they believe that we are looking right at Spirit/Self Realization all of the time, and we simply don’t know what we are looking at.


Subjectivity9

[William]

Originally Posted by Leonard

Knowing oneself is important, but not as important as being true to oneself.

Yes, Leonard, I most certainly agree, but to know thyself is truly hard for people to understand in that small context. To know thyself is simply to be yourself without trying to "know who you are"; for to even ask that question indicates you "don't" know who you are? It's as confusing as hell. So many search around to find someone they would like to be like, and that is when the trouble starts. You can't be anyone but you, unfortunately every one is constantly getting direction conflicting who they are. Then the lament if I were that tall, dark, handsome, rich, pretty, smart, they would be loved and liked better. This world is eat up with such searching. So how in the hell is someone going to know who they truly are?

William

[Subjectivity9]

Thank you Pathfinder,

I believe that basically the reason that we do anything, much like Aristotle said, is that we want to be happy. This comes right back to ‘self interest.’ This is built right in, and any healthy mind will pursue it.

If you are living from the perspective of ‘Enlightened Self Interest,’ you will understand that what goes around, comes around, and so you will treat your environment and people, being a part of your environment, well. This is because when the river raises all of the boats on the river also rise, and you are one of the boats.

Right now in our own financial environment in this country, we are finding that giving out mortgages without a thought to how they will be paid back is like building a house of cards and we all fall down. So in a way integrity is just smart business. No need of morals and laws if you can see clearly enough.


Some have said that the path is long, but ‘Self Realization’ is instantaneous. Paradoxical perhaps, but maybe this because we search for a very long time using the wrong tool, the mind, and it is only when we look directly at Spirit, that Spirit is instantly recognized.

I believe what is given to our minds, are insights. What some have called glimpses of the satisfaction that Spirit is capable of. The mind finds these insights positively delicious. They are addicting. Perhaps this is why when we start on this path we aren’t able to stop? Put with this the mind's need for happiness and it becomes human nature to seek Spirit.

We are all sitting right snap dab in the ‘Center of Spirit,’ right this minute, because Spirit is “Everywhere Center.” Spirit is right in your center, and right in my center. Spirit is the Ultimate Eternal Self and the center of every living thing. Crazy as that sounds, it is also the Truth.

It is also said that we must come to trust enough to someday step off of the path, because all paths would only lead away from the center.

Now this would of course be impossible, because if Spirit is everywhere center, where could we possibly go to be away? So this is the paradox. Mind believing that the path leads us home, scares us into walking an imaginary path that goes nowhere, and confuses the heck out of us.

Subjectivity9

[William]

Originally Posted by Subjectivity9

A Question 4 William,

Why do you think that the Delphic Oracle said, “Know Thyself?

This question was plastered over the entrance to the temple, IMO, because it was the ostensible answer to everyman’s question about what to do, what to investigate, and how to live.

When I was younger I suffered from the disease of being Idealist. I took one look at the world and decided that it needed changing. As time went by and I learned a little bit about history, I also learned that the human world/animal has pretty much gone along as it is going along right now. Oh sure the car designs change, and we carry more sophisticated weapons, but.

I also found out that I was making myself miserable by contemplating what was wrong with the world and her peoples. So what to do?

Wait a dog-gone minute. Why is “Know Thyself” the answer to my problem, all of my problems? Can I really change ‘the world/no my world’ by “Knowing Myself.”

Being a Mystic, and after many, many years of contemplating this question, {this answer (Know Thyself)}, and myself, I would certainly say, “YES, indubitably.”

I have found that we are living on multiple levels simultaneously. We have our finite self; some call this ego. We also have a more intimate Self that is Spiritual and Eternal. When we go about living as though the ego was the only guy in town, everything bugs us. Lets face it; life isn’t fair.

However, when we draw back and get an overview, when we realize that ego is just an instrument for adaptation to our earthly environment, and we begin to get a little taste of the peace that is also here. “The ‘Peace’ beyond all understanding.”

So yes, there are people buying art that cost more than we will make in a lifetime. Yes, this seems crazy. Yes there are people starving, while other people buying art that we think of a crap, with the very same money that could feed millions. And yes, the why of this may be interesting.

Is it a art buying a financial thing? Follow the money.

But, shouldn’t we figure out who we are, and “get ourselves right,” before we take on fixing the whole &#@%$# world?

You know these others are only going to ask you, “Who died and left you boss?”

That being said:

There is no reason why we can’t do some things on this finite level to make things a little bit better for ourselves, and others. Perhaps we can be a little more compassionate, esp. when we discover in living Technicolor all about our own weaknesses and imperfections.

Knowing yourself has a funny outcome. Very often in getting to know yourself you begin to understand others and their pain. You begin to see that we are all more alike than different, deep down. Most differences are surface differences.

Often what we project outwardly (unknowingly) returns to us sooner or later. If we are unkind to people, people will be unkind back at us. It is almost like society is a mirror. If I don’t keep a good eye on myself, the originator of my own karma, I will probably think simply that the world is being unkind.

By the way, cats are very affectionate animals. They just demonstrate it differently that dogs. Some of my best friends in this life have been cats. But I digress. : ^ )

And:

Yes William, you do help me. You get me thinking, (A LOT). Something my teachers in the early grades thought impossible. ; - }

Subjectivity9

Thank you Sub, I will respond to your post in it's entirety, but first let me just say this. To know thyself is to trust thyself and all you do or what you are attending to at any particular moment. Now if you are focusing/attending to is unfamiliar to you, you should not be focusing on it, it is to be, you will become familiar with it as you focus on it without outside interference. If it is more than you can, say, handle, leave it alone; don't mess with it. That goes with anything; people, places or things.
When you don't know yourself and trust yourself, you take chances. That is because you are venturing where you should not be and in most cases it is because you trust anothers judgment, not your own, and that is what the conscience it all about. It is doesn't "suit" you, don't try to wear it!
I hope this explains a little more. Perhaps i will add more as i parse you entire post.

William