I THINK therefore I AM

[richrf]

Hi all,

I always felt that Descartes famous statement is imbued with great irony. When Descartes famously said:

I think therefore I am

he basically described the continuum that exists between the Mind (what I call Consciousness) and the physical body.

Think of Consciousness as being the most ethereal of all substances - e.g. fundamental. Think of the physical body as a condensation of Consciousness (ethereal) into something more dense (physical matter).

Alex Gray's paintings captures this idea:

http://kundaliniyoga.homestead.com/f..._alex_gray.jpg

Consciousness creates the physical body by spiraling itself in like a string being wound around and around itself, such as you would if you wanted to make a ball out of string (the metaphor of modern physic's string theory comes into play here).

So when Descartes exclaimed I think therefore I am he actually was describing something very, very different from dualism. Instead of being separated, Consciousness and Physical Body are a continuum of the same. All intertwined and connected like waves in an ocean.

I wonder if he realized it and was just afraid to articulate it because of the religious times. Maybe he was misinterpreted? Maybe he didn't even realize it himself. Who knows? But the irony always strikes me as being very amusing and exciting.

Rich

[Holiday20310401]

To quote Nietzsche, "I am therefore I think".

The other one is just a bunch of crap. I mean, what is thinking?

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Holiday20310401

To quote Nietzsche, "I am therefore I think".

The other one is just a bunch of crap. I mean, what is thinking?

Thinking is what you are doing when you are asleep, when there is no physical body or four dimensional space.

Nature loves to hide. [Heraclitus]

Natures loves to leave clues. [Rich]

Rich

[Holiday20310401]

Yes ok, so consciousness does not do the thinking. Thinking is a brain function. So how does one get from the Descartes quote to this.

Originally Posted by richrf

Consciousness creates the physical body by spiraling itself in like a string being wound around and around itself, such as you would if you wanted to make a ball out of string (the metaphor of modern physic's string theory comes into play here).

I hear cats like to play around with balls of string...

[Dave Allen]

CARTESIAN, adj. Relating to Descartes, a famous philosopher, author of the celebrated dictum, Cogito ergo sum — whereby he was pleased to suppose he demonstrated the reality of human existence. The dictum might be improved, however, thus: Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum — "I think that I think, therefore I think that I am;" as close an approach to certainty as any philosopher has yet made.

From "the Devil's Dictionary".

[richrf]

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Rich

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by richrf

Hi all,

I always felt that Descartes famous statement is imbued with great irony. When Descartes famously said:

I think therefore I am

he basically described the continuum that exists between the Mind (what I call Consciousness) and the physical body.

onsciousness creates the physical body by spiraling itself in like a string being wound around and around itself, such as you would if you wanted to make a ball out of string (the metaphor of modern physic's string theory comes into play here).

So when Descartes exclaimed I think therefore I am he actually was describing something very, very different from dualism. Instead of being separated, Consciousness and Physical Body are a continuum of the same. All intertwined and connected like waves in an ocean.

I wonder if he realized it and was just afraid to articulate it because of the religious times. Maybe he was misinterpreted? Maybe he didn't even realize it himself. Who knows? But the irony always strikes me as being very amusing and exciting.

Rich

Except that Descartes denied that the "I" referred to the material body, so there was no irony.

[Didymos Thomas]

But you gotta love the way Descartes begs the question, huh?

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

But you gotta love the way Descartes begs the question, huh?

Hi,

I love it. The irony. The ambiguity. The definitiveness. But definitiveness about what. Was he playing tricks with us? Was he trying to hide stuff so that he would not have the Church come down on him? Was his mind playing tricks with him??

This quote, for me, is like the smile of Mona Lisa.

Rich

[Didymos Thomas]

There is nothing definitive about his claim. It's nonsense, contains a glaring logical flaw. His premise presupposes his conclusion. It's junk. It's hard to believe that his proposition was taken so seriously for such a long time. And I'm quite glad we have over come taking Descartes seriously.