Is knowing a mental event?

[Zetherin]

Originally Posted by Emil

Perhaps you should just read the thread. It will then be clear to you what is meant by the phrase.

And no, I do not believe in souls etc.

I participated heavily in this thread and have followed nearly every post, so telling me to 'just read the thread' is a bit disheartening

I insinuated in the beginning of this thread that I thought knowing was a mental event, and I never received a rebuttal. Those of us in the thread, around page 6 (was it?), began discussing the JTB model of knowledge and all of its implications. ACB, fast, ken, I, and others began discussing each modular piece, as many of us were unsure as to where certainty fit into the mix (well, that was one of my discrepancies).

That said, it was never really clarified what "mental event" meant, but, just from knowing what "mental" and "event" mean, I inferred that "mental event" meant, "Something which occurs in the mind". Was this incorrect? If so, what does "mental event" mean? If ken did not mean what it appears the combination of these two words mean, he should have clarified (I think my interpretation was fair, do you disagree?). Otherwise, why expect any kind of meaningful discussion?

[Fil. Albuquerque]

Can an event be local ?

[Emil]

Originally Posted by Zetherin

I participated heavily in this thread and have followed nearly every post, so telling me to 'just read the thread' is a bit disheartening

I insinuated in the beginning of this thread that I thought knowing was a mental event, and I never received a rebuttal. Those of us in the thread, around page 6 (was it?), began discussing the JTB model of knowledge and all of its implications. ACB, fast, ken, I, and others began discussing each modular piece, as many of us were unsure as to where certainty fit into the mix (well, that was one of my discrepancies).

That said, it was never really clarified what "mental event" meant, but, just from knowing what "mental" and "event" mean, I inferred that "mental event" meant, "Something which occurs in the mind". Was this incorrect? If so, what does "mental event" mean? If ken did not mean what it appears the combination of these two words mean, he should have clarified (I think my interpretation was fair, do you disagree?). Otherwise, why expect any kind of meaningful discussion?

Fair enough.

That knowing is a mental event means that it happens solely in the mind. But it doesn't knowledge implies truth and truth is often not in the mind. (It can be.) For instance, that I know the capital of Denmark is Copenhagen implies that (given JTB):

• I believe that Copenhagen is the capital of Denmark.
• I am justified in my belief that Copenhagen is the capital of Denmark.
• It is the case that Copenhagen is the capital of Denmark.

The third requirement is not something that has to do with my mind. It is not a mental fact. If knowing was a mental event, then all requirements for it would be mental facts. But that is not the case, thus knowing is not a mental event.

It is clear (to me, some reject this) that belief is a mental fact.
I think that justification is also a mental fact, but I'm not very sure about it.
I disthink that truth is a mental fact is many cases.

In any case, I think the phrase "knowing is a mental event" should not be used, since it is far from clear that that means solely mental. Basically me and Ken had an earlier discussion much like this about whether knowledge is a kind of belief...

Also, in case you don't know. JTB is not the correct analysis of knowledge. See Gettier's famous essay.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Emil

Ok. Let's argue backwards to the interesting part again...

Is knowing a mental event. No. I agree with you. Now what? Is being justified a mental event? I think yes, but I'm more unsure. Externalists think that it is not.

If for something to be a mental event implies that it is subjective, then in at least one sense of that term, that is not true, since justification is objective, and not subjective. I can be mistaken about whether my belief is justified. In a different sense of the term, "subjective" I guess that justification is subjective, because it goes on in someone's mind.

[Emil]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

If for something to be a mental event implies that it is subjective, then in at least one sense of that term, that is not true, since justification is objective, and not subjective. I can be mistaken about whether my belief is justified. In a different sense of the term, "subjective" I guess that justification is subjective, because it goes on in someone's mind.

Let's not use the words "objective" and "subjective" without carefully defining them first. These words are dangerously vague and ambiguous!

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Emil

Let's not use the words "objective" and "subjective" without carefully defining them first. These words are dangerously vague and ambiguous!

Yes. But I thought I made it clear what I meant in this particular case. Justification is not subjective in the sense that there are criteria for whether the justification is adequate or not. But that it is subjective in the sense that it is mental (goes on in your head). Won't that do?

[Emil]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Yes. But I thought I made it clear what I meant in this particular case. Justification is not subjective in the sense that there are criteria for whether the justification is adequate or not. But that it is subjective in the sense that it is mental (goes on in your head). Won't that do?

It seems to me that the words "subjective" and "objective" did nothing good in your post. You should not have used them at all. You should just have said that justification is mental (this makes you an internalist about it) and that it does not matter for justification what anyone believes about out.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Emil

It seems to me that the words "subjective" and "objective" did nothing good in your post. You should not have used them at all. You should just have said that justification is mental (this makes you an internalist about it) and that it does not matter for justification what anyone believes about out.

Justification is mental. But it is objective. As you pointed out, "subjective" has a number of meanings.

[Emil]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Justification is mental. But it is objective. As you pointed out, "subjective" has a number of meanings.

What is meant by "subjective" is subjective!

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Emil

What is meant by "subjective" is subjective!

You are right. But what does "subjective" mean? Not merely many tokens, but many types.