Climate Change Politics

[kennethamy]

News from Down Under:

SYDNEY – Australia's Parliament defeated legislation to set up a greenhouse gas emissions trading system on Wednesday, throwing a central plank of the government's plans to combat global warming into disarray.


It is good to see that the Australians have refused to be stampeded. And, along with the scandal coming out of East Anglia in England about cooking the data on climate change, things are beginning to turn better. We'll see what happens in Copenhagen. It is pretty clear that the United States Senate is not going to be stampeded either. So, hope springs eternal.

[jeeprs]

Got any science, or just polemics?

If you are going to start a debate on one of the most vexed and vexing issues in current world events, do you have any facts, or just tabloid sentiment?

---------- Post added 12-02-2009 at 08:25 PM ----------

furthermore nobody was being stampeded here. It was until this week a bi-partisan policy that substantially resembled the policy that the Conservatives took to the last election. It has been under development for 10 years, has been subject to a number of enquiries, and an exhaustive research and consultation process.

What has actually happened is that the right wing of the party fomented a scare campaign based on the idea that climate change is a left-wing conspiracy to undermine capitalism (they said this on television) and then rolled the moderates who had already negotiated an extremely modest climate change amelioration bill with the Labour government.

So the Liberals have, as some commentators said, 'taken a step backward and to the right'. My prediction is that there will be electoral backlash. But most of all I am very saddened that a broad consensus on combating a real threat has been shattered by the right wing, the chance may not come again for some time.

So much for opinion. Henceforth everything I contribute to this thread will be referenced.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by jeeprs

Got any science, or just polemics?

If you are going to start a debate on one of the most vexed and vexing issues in current world events, do you have any facts, or just tabloid sentiment?

---------- Post added 12-02-2009 at 08:25 PM ----------

furthermore nobody was being stampeded here. It was until this week a bi-partisan policy that substantially resembled the policy that the Conservatives took to the last election. It has been under development for 10 years, has been subject to a number of enquiries, and an exhaustive research and consultation process.

What has actually happened is that the right wing of the party fomented a scare campaign based on the idea that climate change is a left-wing conspiracy to undermine capitalism (they said this on television) and then rolled the moderates who had already negotiated an extremely modest climate change amelioration bill with the Labour government.

So the Liberals have, as some commentators said, 'taken a step backward and to the right'. My prediction is that there will be electoral backlash. But most of all I am very saddened that a broad consensus on combating a real threat has been shattered by the right wing, the chance may not come again for some time.

So much for opinion. Henceforth everything I contribute to this thread will be referenced.

I suppose that what you mean by "broad consensus" is a "broad consensus" that climate change is an indisputable truth, and the world has to go back at least 100 years. The latest events from East Anglia remind me of two tales: The Boy who Cried "Wolf", and The Emperor's Clothes. Like many others of your view, you sound as if someone has challenged, and insulted, your religion.

[xris]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

I suppose that what you mean by "broad consensus" is a "broad consensus" that climate change is an indisputable truth, and the world has to go back at least 100 years. The latest events from East Anglia remind me of two tales: The Boy who Cried "Wolf", and The Emperor's Clothes. Like many others of your view, you sound as if someone has challenged, and insulted, your religion.

I think you should be wary of challenging the consensus of opinion on one rogue report.Energy and Global Warming News for October 26: Markey expands “clean coal” forged letter investigation Climate Progress

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by xris

I think you should be wary of challenging the consensus of opinion on one rogue report.Energy and Global Warming News for October 26: Markey expands “clean coal” forged letter investigation Climate Progress

There was no "rogue report". These were purloined e-mails which showed how the data were being cooked, and how contrary data were being suppressed.

[xris]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

There was no "rogue report". These were purloined e-mails which showed how the data were being cooked, and how contrary data were being suppressed.

So whats your point? one rogue research, does that make the argument invalid. I see you dont mention my link.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by xris

So whats your point? one rogue research, does that make the argument invalid. I see you dont mention my link.

My point is that the University at East Anglia is a very important source of climate change data, and very influential. And, it wasn't only that university, it was also what went on in (say) the University of Pennsylvania whose data are now being scrutinized. This is not the end, it it only the start. Your link concerned something entirely different from what I can tell. What was its point?

[Jay]

Just a hunch-
With our recent success of material control and power, we seem to have lost our sense of danger. No other species seems to make this error of perspective the way our species has. I would call it titanic arrogance.

[Dave Allen]

Originally Posted by Jay

Just a hunch-
No other species seems to make this error of perspective the way our species has.

Rabbits do all the time.

"We've a surfeit of local resources - let's make babies like it's going out of fashion!"

Time passes...

"There's no grass left - let's die out in droves!"

http://geoinfo.amu.edu.pl/wpk/pe/a/h...toricalpop.gif

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by Jay

Just a hunch-
With our recent success of material control and power, we seem to have lost our sense of danger. No other species seems to make this error of perspective the way our species has. I would call it titanic arrogance.

But what has that to do with the manipulation of data?