That was good one. Thanks for that.

---------- Post added 11-06-2009 at 10:07 AM ----------

Not on this forum, but some arguments have helped me clarify my own positions.

Honestly, I have experienced quite a few comments and members that have changed my views on philosophical issues. But I would not say that it was an exact argument that changed my perspective on things, but rather the way that they produced their topics, what evidence they presented, and how well they conveyed it. Obviously, all of us have our own opinions which are not likely to change. We will keep and continue to keep them. People will, no matter the facts, believe what they want. I have no real problem with that actually, because the change in perspective usually comes in small doses rather than in a gigantic swig. But the more people are exposed to quality discussions, the more they will in turn adopt some of the mannerisms which the other exposes.

But I have to say that a great part of this forum can come in (given the right participants) when an argument does not take on an argument but a cooperative analysis. These are wonderful discussions to get involved in, and I look very hard through the forum daily for these potential gems. And usually, 1 out of 5 of these potential gems actually produces a very lively and informed discussion. There have been a precious handful of these discussions.

Of some of the most influential discussions I have had that have shaped my perspective on things, I would have to say that the Logic Symposia provided a good deal focused discussion which is essentially based on helping others. Take Propositional Logic Symposia 4: Translating English into Logic for example;

http://www.philosophyforum.com/philo...o-logic-4.html

There is no argument here per se. It is all originally intended to help fellow members get a rough grasp of basic propositional logic... analysis rather than argument. Throughout the life of the thread, people had posted replies asking small questions about homework or things that they wanted to have clarified. No gigantic egos confronting one another in a battle of opinion… just members helping members. No wild delineations from the original topic… members helping members under the terms of the discussion. And I see since the last time I logged onto that particular thread (which has been quite a while) there are still members helping members in a concise and informed way, putting the topic before their own biases. That… is…. Philosophy… at…. its… finest.

This is probably one of my favorites (and most enlightening discussions) on “Are Women Feminists?”;

http://www.philosophyforum.com/loung...feminists.html

Most everyone who contributed to this thread had good positions to take and perspectives that enlightened the discussion. Granted there are small parts here and there that are not especially all that great, but they are perspectives none the less and the topic remained remarkably on point for a good deal of the time. Epideictics were short and to the point. But what’s remarkable about the thread is that members stuck to their informed guns and kept on feeding genuine ammunition. Unique perspectives were right on, regardless of whether or not I agreed with them. If the forum were to close tomorrow, I would remember that thread as one of my fondest discussions with my fellow and capable members.

I would also add that there are many members who did not take part in these two particular discussions that I hold in high regard for thier expertise, talent, and helpfulness. Props to them for carrying on.

__________________
Forum Links: Rules | User Control Panel | Video Tutorials | Blogs | Social Groups | FAQs
"With prudence the philosopher approves or blames. If errors triumph, he departs and waits"- Pythagoras (F.13 GVP 174)

just a few days ago someone convinced me that language has a greater influence on cognition than I previously credited it for

__________________
brought to you by Carl's Jr

Yes, arguments can and do change my opinions, almost on a daily basis.
It is simply in my nature. I constantly seek new viewpoints to challenge the old ones. Not just outside but also inside myself.

Once example:
I have a metaphysical model of reality that has to be consistent with science. Otherwise I am simply deluding myself. As soon as someone proves that either quantum mechanics or relativity is inherently flawed I have a problem.

__________________
Open to everything happy and sad. Hold on too good when it's all going bad. Seeing the sun when I can't really see
Hoping the sun will at least look at me.

I went from religious to strong atheist when I was 13-ish (internal argument, writings of Carl Sagan) then nominally religious up until the age of 19 when, among other things, I lost an argument to someone and realized that the only reason I had to be religious was wishful thinking about death and pressure from crappy people around me

I am now a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist or whatever

__________________
brought to you by Carl's Jr

My point of view often changes when I realize that I don't know enough on a topic to be arguing it. And this has happened with nearly all topics I discuss -- there are only a couple topics for which I'm an expert, and none of them are in philosophy.

__________________
Forum Links: Rules | User Control Panel |Video Tutorials |Blogs | Social Groups | FAQs

"How you get so big eating food of this kind?" -Yoda

I would add that I used to consider myself a political leftist and still do to some extent but I have to say that other leftists as well as ordinary people and their charming behaviors are making some very compelling arguments in favor of libertarianism

---------- Post added 11-09-2009 at 11:47 AM ----------

here's another one: I am convinced that "Islamization" is a real issue in Europe although the people making the biggest noise about it tend to be repulsive themselves. of course that doesn't matter per se

__________________
brought to you by Carl's Jr

Aah, I remember it now - the discussion about the guy that allegedly 'aborted' the abortion doctor.

Before hand I was against abortion, but not in favour of using force to stop it. This was timidity on my behalf, and I was soundly convinced by the arguments presented that it is in fact moral, to use force to get rid of the 'doctor'.

__________________
http://www.poseidons.net/

Yes; several times.

There have been many, but the one that comes to mind was this:

When I was a Atheist, I spent seven years on a Theology forum that was dominated by all manner of Christians.

A great deal of them were mindless fundamentalists who preached a steady message of hatred and self-righteousness. This reinforced my belief that all Christians were ignorant and/or hypocrites.

Yet, there were a few Christians on the forum who never posted attacks on me and were always kind and courteous, even when I deconstructed their arguments in a sarcastic way.

It wasn't so much an argument as it was a adherence to their own faith that eventually let me see that not all Christians were the ignorant fundys that I'd made them out to be.

Though I am no Christian, I now have respect for those who do follow their faith. More than that, however, I learned a valuable lesson: extremists are extremists no matter what philosophy they espouse; it's illogical and inaccurate to blame an institution for the actions of its followers.

-ITL-