But even so pagan alot of people would've broke rank now and come forward to verify these claims and they haven't and not all people are willing to hurt people just because they are told to by an authority and that experiment is quite old, i wonder how many now would follow orders such as that.

well caroline maybe some will but it wouldn't be easy, especially if you feel isolated. There is the oath of secrecy, the job, the pension, the guilt ....... and the fear. There is also the not inconsiderable possibility that the media would ridicule and misrepresent.

But in all honesty. If someone did come forward and got through on to the internet and then the mainstream media ......how would you personally react to them? Are you sure that you wouldn't label them as the lowest form of scum alive, trying to make money and publicity on the backs of a terrible tragedy by telling cheap lies?

Anything is possible I guess. We could go on all night but what it comes down to is what you believe because there is no evidence to say that it did happen other than that the US government ignored warnings that they would be hit and that came out ages before the conspiracy theory, before anyone even dreamed of it and no one thought of the cospiracy theory back then and I thought it was becasuse the government was just plain stupid, yes I was shocked to hear that they had ignored it but but like I said that could be because they just simply didn't beleive it, too stupid or too arrogant, hell anything was possible with the Bush government. Like I said pagan we could go on all night. Anything is possible but you'll never really know. I think it's possible that the US could've let the warnings go unheeded in order to start a war but I could also belive they ignored it because of arrogance. It is a sinnister thought that they could have let 3,000 of their own burn to death for the sake of a war. Personally i am open to anything but I cannot believe something unless I have irrefutable proof so as yet I think it's possible and I have yet to have it proven to me in order to believe it.

no probs caroline, and once we understand each other you are right there is no point going around in circles

Im fully aware of what men are capable of BUT the bloody premeditated killing of thousands of your fellow countrymen by hundreds of intelligence officers has the ring of fiction, a hollywood epic that makes you laugh at the incredibility of its script.One death bed confession, one secret told to a close lover, a state of depression, a high level of suicide.These men in grey are not monsters they enter the profession to save their citizens not kill them.Sorry Pagan it dont ring my bell.

no problem xris, you clearly believe that such a conspiracy is unsound because of its patriotic monstrosity. Fair enough.

Pagan its got nothing to do with service or patriotism its my faith in human nature.My understanding is that you could not gather so many convinced individuals that killing three thousand of your fellow countrymen would benefit your morals or your country.Judging history by the stupidity of the Bush administration and believing he could be so cleverly devious as to know their plan and convince the secret service it would benefit his administration if they allowed it to proceed.It beggars belief.

ok fair enough. i don't mean to misunderstand your position.
this is a very good point and one that i agree with. I don't think that could have happened either. But then again that is not the only possible mechanism. I dont know what happened, but the WT7 incident just really bothers me. I just cannot help but be convinced that that building is very obviously to me brought down by controlled explosives. I would feel a whole lot better if someone in authority just said "well yeh. of course we brought it down. We felt it best to do so under the circumstances (they explain) and take the risk of getting the explosives there in place (they explain how they did it) because of (they explain)." But instead we have a complete denial of such. Various other completely unbelievable explanations to me, that keep changing. WT7 was not investigated like the towers and the pentagon. The bbc report it fallen 20 minutes before it did and then say that some unfortunate error occurred such that they lost all the reporters video tapes for that day so no comment. I mean that just stinks. I dont get it. I want to get it.

I remind people here that if they can offer an explanation that could even bring some reasonable possibility of the official version or some reasonable explanation as to why the US government had to cover it up, then please share it with me. As i said before, i believed at the time that flight 93 was shot down, but not because of some government expending of innocent lives for political effect, but because it was quite possibly a very sad and awful decision to have to make in order to protect further lives. If that is what happened i wouldn't blame a government for not admitting it, not least because some poor pilot had to do it. That and the terrible anguish for the friends and relatives who would naturally cry out for a better solution. But nobody died when WT7 collapsed. Why cover it up?

I never even looked at the whole conspiracy 9/11 thing until last year because i just dont buy those things. It was a friend that said 'whats your problem. just take another look and if nothing bothers you then fine'. Personally i believe conspiracy theories to be a last desperate attempt by many to buy into grand narratives in a post modern world. Many people would rather believe that the devil was in control than think that nobody is in control. Conspiracy theories are indestructable grand narratives, because there is always the next deeper level if the one you are doubting the credibilty of looks a bit shakey or turns out to state as fact something that turns out to be daft.

But by the same token, i dont want such a belief on my part to go to the other extreme and never consider perspectives on history and institutions that is other than pure and decent. That is just extreme naivism.

I guess i was hoping to meet someone here who said "oh yeh the WT7 thing. Take a look at this dude or consider this and you will see that this is yet another media hype trick by nutty conspiracy theorists pumping out their crazy agendas"

Unless the videos I've seen of the subsequent explosions in the towers during their near free-fall speed collapse were manufactured, I see little room for doubt that towers 1,2, and 7 were brought down by planned demolition.

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AfricanCrisis

Can u see how the value of the SA rand spikes within weeks of 9/11?
It may be coincidence,
but they say that in police work there are no coincidences.

If I may speculate a bit:
is it possible that payout for whoever was responsible for 9/11
was mostly in SA rands?

Perhaps deliberately with the intention of destabilising the region?
It did not seem to matter that the paper trail was a mile of dollars wide.
And despite al sorts of investigation,
no viable reason was ever given for that spike at the end of 2001.

Just speculation,
of course.

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