I've just skimmed through this thread and I haven't seen this thing being mentioned .... 10 September 2001. Rumsfeld publicly declares the pentagon can't account for 2,300,000,000,000 USD, one day before the twins fell.

So many conspiracy theories these days. While things are not always as they seem, more than likely in this case, things are as they seem.

My problem with the issue of conspiracy theories is that there doesn't seem to be any middle ground between belief in complete goverment control of everything, and wide-eyed naivity. Of course Islamic terroists flew a couple of planes into the twin towers, the evidence is obvious. But why is it so propostourous to imagine that the US goverment let them? Just because the US used Islamic terroism as an excuse, does not mean that it is not a real and deadly threat. I dislike most conspiracy theories because they attempt to oversimplify complicated conflicts and movements, and I hate simple acceptance of what governments and media say for the same reason.
To people who think that there are no conspiracys, I can only show the example of history, and given how machiavellian even simple relativly primitive societies could be, consider how much more complex and numerous conspiracys must be today- advanced technology, vast beuracries and millitary-industrial complexes. Anyone who thinks that there are no conspiracies is an idiot, and uneducated to boot. However as some of the people posting proved, people are willing to swallow conspiracy theories more ridiculous than the lies told for public consumption- the whole plane disintigration thing in this case- 'planes are made of thick heavy metal.' Anybody who payed the least attention in scince class, or who even thought about it, would realise that 'thick heavy metal' is not going to get into the sky. Honestly.
On the matter of 9-11, I think that there is plenty of evidence that the CIA did not drop the ball on it, but infact discovered the plot, and the descion was made, at some level, to let the attacks go ahead. The chereography of the government in this situation indicates this- the position of the President during the attacks- safely tucked away in a primary school far away, the swiftness with which the incident was converted into a justification for war, the token criticism and lack of real recrimination of and in the CIA. Considering all the terroist groups willing to take pot shots at the US, why should the goverment bother with elabroate deceptions when it can just look the other way at the right time?

Something I have tried to explain to my friends... still I enjoy their theories. Some of them get pretty funny.

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I find humor in conspiracy theories. Especially the ridiculous ones that a lot of stupid people a lot of money to hear about from boneheads like David Icke. They make for good laughs.

As to 9/11, the only way I could see something like that happening is if the U.S. government knew it was going to happen and let it. The evidence that is out there strongly points to that being the case. The Bush administration was warned far in advance by intelligence agencies but chose to do nothing. Reading PNAC documents also suggests that many higher ups in the administration wanted a massive attack to happen to build up the military, and launch a war to push U.S. hegemony.

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"Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Laughs out loud at "boneheads".

the whole 9/11 conspiracy worries me. At first i thought the idea of a government plot was ridiculous. But i do remember comparing the news from the net while it happened with what the british radio and tv networks were broadcasting and saying to myself "how can i know so much more in advance than the bbc just by using a 56k internet connection?".

The only conspiracy i could see was that flight 93 looked as if it was shot down, but that would be sadly understandable.

Since then i have seriously reconsidered how the twin towers fell. It just doesn't look right. But what really worries me is the building WT7. I never took any notice at the time but looking at the videos it definitely looks like a professional demolition job. There are eye witnesses who were told it was going to be brought down. There is the very curious bbc live interview with the correspondent standing in front of a window showing the scene and she reports that the building had collapsed. But it is clearly visible in the background and doesnt fall untill 20 minutes later. The bbc offer no explanation for this. The 9/11 commission doesnt mention it and the US government has given no definitive alternative explanation, or denial that it was a controlled demolition. Why is this?

At first it seems irrelevant. But consider how long it would take to set up the necessary explosives. Consider the not insignificant circumstances around the building. Not least that it was on fire! Who in their right minds would get massive amounts of explosives through that chaos, set it up in a rush, fire in the building and not to mention extreme high security. It just doesnt make sense to me. I can only conclude that the explosives were already there. September 11th 2001 was a Tuesday. That would imply that for at least one working day, hundreds if not thousands of people were working amongst high explosives.

How did the explosives get there? Why use highjacked aircraft if terrorists can infiltrate such a massive public building so completely and undiscovered? And why have they not repeated the operation?

All this bothers me. But what bothers me more than anything is that i and many others recognise that something is very wrong with the official story ......... and do nothing. I mean i still act normally. I am not stunned. I am not active. I have just got used to it and it is just a general cynicism towards the authorities. In other words i dont have to imagine if politicians and military and secret organisations were to do something like that. I already believe there is something that seriously does not add up. But i would never have imagined that i would be so passive.

...... i would really like to go back to believing that the conspiracy theories are fixed and hoaxes. If you can help, then please do. I dont like looking at the state i am in.

I hear you there Pagan. What I find odd is the difference between the media coverage the day it happened, and the day after after the government declared Al Queda responsible. The three buildings all collapsed like no other buildings in the past, and fires were supposedly to blame, but no towers have ever fallen due to fires.

There is also an echo to this difference. If you watch the Oklahoma City news coverage of the bombing there, the news was reporting that there were numerous bombs found in the building. But of course there was nothing said about that as the story progressed.

The problem I see in both of these events is how poorly constructed the official government stories seem. Not to mention, the investigations were shoddy at the very least. Then on top of it, there ends up being all kinds of crazy alternate explanations that are ridiculous to say the least (e.g. space weapons, mini nukes, Leprechauns, inter-dimensional reptile beings that have infiltrated the human race). Thus, very plausible alternate explanations end up lost among all the junk created by crazies.

With that said, will we ever know the real truth? Not as long as the government operates as it does. The thing is though, I don't know if I really want to know the truth. People would probably be outraged and many probably would revolt, and I can guarantee that marshal law will be put into place. Private security forces would be roaming the streets, there would be a crack down on liberties, and the religious nuts and right wing fanatics would seize power in anyway they could, because as it is known, they take advantage of any security breach and use it to their advantage.

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"Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

yeh

Theaetetus i nearly posted 'capitalist democracy' as my favourite myth in another thread. And i mean that truly. I dont believe that politicians represent the people who elect them. But i do think the myth protects us from anarchy without an overtly oppressive state. And that the chaos of the elections protects us from overt dictatorships and the like.

But i worry that the myth is being manipulated with more and more confidence by those who would gain from secretly distorting it. That doesnt sound stable........ and I also suspect that it maintains global inequality.

But if democracy and free trade doesnt proliferate wealth, justice and freedom then what possibly could?

I can't believe this, 3,000 people were burnt to death by their own leaders.