Would you trade your life for a happy feeling?

[iconoclast]

DT,

I concede the second point to the extent that drugs can produce pleasant and exciting effects - but less so the more you take them, and in addiction, it's not about the pleasure of the drug anymore, but about the pain of not having the drug.

I've been to AA/NA - and took what I wanted from the meetings, which was people who understood and weren't judgemental who'd support me in my decision to quit. But it became somewhat self flagellatory after a while, going there listening to people talk about it.

I've done cold turkey half a dozen times, but not once by choice - and never with the drugs there. It had nothing to do with will power and given the choice, i'd have taken the drug every time. When I quit I had to move away - just to get away from people.

Anyhow, as you say, back to the thread, don't get in the box, it's a prison.

iconoclast.

[Didymos Thomas]

I concede the second point to the extent that drugs can produce pleasant and exciting effects - but less so the more you take them, and in addiction, it's not about the pleasure of the drug anymore, but about the pain of not having the drug.

Right, which generally requires habitual use.

I've been to AA/NA - and took what I wanted from the meetings, which was people who understood and weren't judgemental who'd support me in my decision to quit. But it became somewhat self flagellatory after a while, going there listening to people talk about it.

The meetings tend to be filled with nonjudgmental people who want to help you quit. My main concern with twelve step is that no path out of addiction works for everyone, yet twelve step programs enforce the notion that, in order to recover from addiction, the addict must surrender himself completely to God.

I've done cold turkey half a dozen times, but not once by choice - and never with the drugs there. It had nothing to do with will power and given the choice, i'd have taken the drug every time.

Cold turkey by strength of will will not always work. Especially when dealing with harder drugs and particularly vicious addictions. But the issue of will is not limited to cold turkey, it is part of any addiction recovery. That's what "rock bottom" is all about. Even walking into an AA/NA meeting, without a court order to do so, is a matter of will power for most.

Anyhow, as you say, back to the thread, don't get in the box, it's a prison.

So what if it is a prison? It's a unique prison that has attracted some number of people. This is something we, human beings, need to check out. Someone has to experience the process and tell about it - maybe we should get rid of the box. But we can't know until we experience the box.
I'm not suggesting everyone jump happily into the machine, I'm suggesting we learn about the experience of being in the machine.

[Sytar Embassy]

Let me change the question alittle. Say that you can only spend 30 min in the box a day and still pay nothing. However, you can pay an extra $100 for another hour in the box. How much money would you spend on the box?

Its like crak. Never endding happyness would drive men mad for such a feeling, don't you think?

[iconoclast]

With respect, I'm done talking about this. Don't do drugs, they're false and destructive. iconoclast.

[Deftil]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

DT,

Drug induced hapiness is not happiness. It's illusory on two levels - one, it's a compromise of your faculties - in other words happiness purchased at a reduced level of function, and two, it's relief from the pain of not having the drug that passes for happiness. Will power is a non-question in face of addiction. That's why AA, NA and so on talk about 'rock bottom' - it's only when the addict reaches rock bottom and weighs the short term misery of quitting against the long-term misery of a lifetime of addiction can they make the choice.

Wait, if drug induced happiness is not happiness, then why is it called drug induced happiness? By definition, it must be happiness. If it isn't, then it isn't actually drug induced happiness.
This isn't to say that there are not significant drawbacks to drug use; there are - especially over the long term, but to say that happiness isn't happiness is logically inconsistent.

[Didymos Thomas]

Don't you guys know? "Happiness is a warm gun".

[Sytar Embassy]

O man, me is confused! "A warm gun?" Could you explain your self a little on that?

If no one has thing else to say, I could get a new situation and post it. I have the class 2marrow.

[de Silentio]

Originally Posted by Sytar Embassy

Ok, heres the question.

I said no becuase the real happyness isn't in a metal box. It's in your backyard. I would much rather move and run than sit and feel good. In life, you can't just want to feel good 24/7. You have to feel the full range on emoutions. Anger, sarrow, ect. Thats what makes life so great, the ability to feel this range on emoution.

Input?

Funny you classify what would make you happy, because isn't this what the box would do? Wouldn't the box make you 'move and run', feel anger and sorrow just to make you feel happy?

[de Silentio]

Drug induced happiness is happiness. What's the difference between a drug making me happy and sex with my wife making me happy?

Sex can make someone feel happy if it is enjoyable, but obviously forced sex will not make someone feel happy. Likewise, a drug can make someone feel happy, but forced drug use (addiction) will not.

Are drugs a prescription for happiness? Well, in fact they may be. Drugs help people feel happy all the time. Caffeine, aspirin, anti-depressants. Of course it is not the drug alone that makes one happy. The drug has to correlate with good experiences. Think about someone who has social-anxiety-disorder. In a room full of people they are nervous and uncomfortable, happiness doesn't usually follow from these feelings. But if they take a drug that alleviates these feelings, then they have the potential for being happy. And all things equal, it is the drug that gives them the potential for feeling happy, and if they feel happy, it is the drug that made them that way.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Sytar Embassy

"Sciencetists have invented box that you walk in, sit in a chair, and the machine shoots stimulents into your body that makes you feel happy. The box will vary the stimulent so its a new feeling of happy every so often so that you wount get borde of it. After about 10 hours, a life support system turns on to keep you alive. Its free to use for as long as you like. However, everyone that has entered the box has never come back out. Now, your next in line. Would you go into the box knowing you may never come out?"

I'd also have to say no to this one. First of all, I don't believe there's anything science can invent that would make a person truly happy. Stimulants can induce a false happiness but if you were unhappy to begin with, then you are just an unhappy person on happy stimulants.

Happiness cannot be purchased just as it cannot be induced and the thought of the possibility is somewhat absurd either way. Happiness is first found within self and then expressed outside of self. We are always looking for happiness in things and in other people and in stuff outside of ourselves that we have no control over and we often find that this type of happiness will always let us down.

So, NO I don't think I'd want to step into a box that made false promises of something science has no control over.