Cosmic Order.

[Pessimist]

When we say there is order in the cosmos or universe what exactly do we mean by this?

Many have called the cosmos a chaotic one in constant flux but if we acknowledge the amount of chaos within existence how exactly can there be order and even if there was strands of order within this chaotic existence since it revolves around chaos how can we understand any of it clearly?

I personally am under the impression that the cosmos revolves around a sort of ongoing existence of aimless relativity.

I personally perceive the cosmos being utterly a nihilistic one.

Cosmic Nihilism is Untenable


Both cosmic nihilism and existential nihilism come to the conclusion that everything is meaningless and that value is nonexistent. The two approaches differ in the means by which they reach this conclusion. While existential nihilism uses rationality and reductionist arguments against moral theory, cosmic nihilism uses high-sounding and poetic argument. Hence its appeal to those of an irrational bent.


Here are some typical cosmic nihilist arguments. All life ends at the same point, death. So, the intermediary events have no meaning. The earth and its inhabitants consist of only a small sand particle within the vast oceanic universe. Therefore, everything we do is meaningless. Or similarly, anything that I do now has no meaning in a million of years. Thus, everything I do now is meaningless.


These, and the many arguments like them, are irrational because of their irrelevance. A few thought experiments will easily prove this. For, if I were to become immortal, or my size or the earth’s size were to be tremendously increased, or something that I do now will having meaning in a million years, none of these things will cause my life to have meaning and to suddenly create value out of nothing. A part of the effect must always be in the cause and if all causes are valueless, nothing will ever change that fact and allow value to be created.


Thomas Nagel, in his article The Absurd, has an excellent reply to the Million Years argument. 1.) If nothing that I do now matters in a million years, then by common reasoning, 2.) nothing that matters in a million years matters now. So, even if 1.) were false and something that I did now did matter in a million years, it still would not matter now because of 2.).


Basically, all arguments from the perspective of cosmic nihilism are poetry posing as philosophy and should be discarded as such. No credit is given for getting the right answer because it was only attained through at admiration of the tragic life, and not through true insight.

p22

[Arjen]

Pessimist, try to see the natural "flow" in things. Chaos is something which is "forced" into existance. "Order" is something which formes and takes apart; allowing things to come into existance only to fall apart again. There is something which kickstarted it all however and in this lies an answer I think. That something is what has created "all". We cannot know what this is because we are "inside" it and by allowing the "flow" to happen (by not influencing) we can allow ourselves to become part of this "flow". That "flow" is the result of the "origin", still present. The only question is how to allow this "flow" to take place.

A nice one I always think is:

"Knowing the way is being like a child: laugh and cry all day long without getting tired."

[Zetetic11235]

I ,at one time, was a very strong proponent of the existential nihilism you described, but I realized that it did not hold because of a simple fact:It leads to the question of wether we should even acknowledge logic, which, in the pattern of the reduction that has been followed to this question leads to a resounding NO! To utilize logic cannot be a matter of logic, only a faith in logic can dictate your utilization of logic because somthing cannot be based only in itself or it falls through. This line of thinking leads to a complete dissintegration of all certainty since there is no absolute truth and the technique of the reduction is one which cuts apart the shaky relative truths by exposing their lack of a base.
I am not sure of cosmic nihilism, but after the self-destructing logical reduction approach, it doesn't matter untill you make the realization that you are either dead or with faith in somthing even if it is logic, at which point you can move on. It may not be progress, but it gives a vehicle through which life is bareable and even enjoyable, it gives you a crutch, you might think, on which to lean your dogmatic frameworks. Life cannot exclude some dogmatism or it may as well be death but for the experience.

[boagie]

Originally Posted by Zetetic11235

I ,at one time, was a very strong proponent of the existential nihilism you described, but I realized that it did not hold because of a simple fact:It leads to the question of wether we should even acknowledge logic, which, in the pattern of the reduction that has been followed to this question leads to a resounding NO! To utilize logic cannot be a matter of logic, only a faith in logic can dictate your utilization of logic because somthing cannot be based only in itself or it falls through. This line of thinking leads to a complete dissintegration of all certainty since there is no absolute truth and the technique of the reduction is one which cuts apart the shaky relative truths by exposing their lack of a base.
I am not sure of cosmic nihilism, but after the self-destructing logical reduction approach, it doesn't matter untill you make the realization that you are either dead or with faith in somthing even if it is logic, at which point you can move on. It may not be progress, but it gives a vehicle through which life is bareable and even enjoyable, it gives you a crutch, you might think, on which to lean your dogmatic frameworks. Life cannot exclude some dogmatism or it may as well be death but for the experience.

Zetetic,

Interesting your Nihilistic understanding, there is one thing left standing with a nihilistic understaning and that is, that everything, absolutely everything is relational in its nature, it is said that subject and object cannot be separated, and indeed that is correct, the relation between subject and object is, realilty itself. Man is the measure of all things, but only in relation to object.

[nameless]

Originally Posted by Pessimist

When we say there is order in the cosmos or universe what exactly do we mean by this?

It means, to me, that we see/conceive recognizable patterns (to us). This, we call 'order'.

[boagie]

Hi All!!

We see the manifest/order amidst the chaos potential/the unmanifest---and it is AWESOME!! Its both the manifestation and the source of its own genesis, is it god??

[Nocturne]

Pessimist,

There is meaning in the cosmos. In fact, the cosmos is saturated with meaning. There is as much meaning in the cosmos as there are living things in the cosmos to find it meaningful, and there are a great many living things in the cosmos. In short, 'meaning' is not an essence to be discovered in independent of living things, but is a relation between them and anything which is thought to be meaningful, a relation that is quite as real as the two things which it holds between. There is no scarcity of meaning in the cosmos, but a veritable abundance of the stuff, projected by and at the cosmos--from its finest crevices to its greatest expanse--in such a quantity that I almost feel as though we could do with less.

Regards,
Lee