Confucius

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

I'd rather say, I appreciate anyone's tradition developed independently, for those are the only ones that can validate (independently confirm or deny) mine so that I know what I can rely on.

How can a tradition be validated, confirmed, or denied?!

They are what they are.

You know what to rely on by striving for authenticity -- by self-criticism, reflection, and reconsideration. Only then do you know if you really believe what you think you do.

[Ron C. de Weijze]

Aedes, a tradition becomes one, in my book, by being independently confirmed in different peoples' opinions. When I believe I have found some truth and you can confirm that independently (as per by my self-criticism, reflection and reconsideration), then that truth becomes laden with more truth-value, so that I (and you) can more easily believe it and more rapidly apply it in proper circumstances. These circumstances will tend to become a tradition.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

Aedes, a tradition becomes one, in my book, by being independently confirmed in different peoples' opinions.

A tradition is what someone does, not what someone believes. Many people traditionally say "god bless you" when someone sneezes. We traditionally shake hands using our right hand. We traditionally celebrate birthdays.

We can believe something about these traditions, but you don't believe or confirm the tradition itself. That's why what you're saying doesn't make sense to me.

If what you're really trying to say is that comparing traditions can confirm one as superior or inferior to another, I find that fairly elitist as it ignores the different needs that other people are entitled to have, and how those needs are fulfilled by their practices and beliefs.

[Ron C. de Weijze]

Belief is not aboutness. If you believe, then act. Although some classes in this world can permit themselves not to keep up their word but just their worthy appearances, preferably intercultural, so that any true reasons/agenda's may have their impact in spite of all the politeness and diplomacy.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

some classes in this world can permit themselves not to keep up their word but just their worthy appearances, preferably intercultural, so that any true reasons/agenda's may have their impact in spite of all the politeness and diplomacy.

And some have such respect for the autonomy of others, such genuine interest in others' beliefs, and such sincere concern for the marginalization of minority views, that their "word" is synonymous with their "worthy appearance". That's what multiculturalism is -- not some stereotype.

[Ron C. de Weijze]

I am happy to assess that the Leftists multicultural experiment, at least in the Netherlands, finally after 30+ years, has failed. The party that was and is mainly responsible, has diminished so far, that now finally in their own countrywide newspaper they are begging for less criticism from their own voters. Even in that debate there is at most 1 out of 10 defending the case.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

I am happy to assess that the Leftists multicultural experiment, at least in the Netherlands, finally after 30+ years, has failed.

Why does failure make you happy?

[Ron C. de Weijze]

Would you have joined the party in May 1945?

[GoshisDead]

Not exactly sure whatleftist propoganda has to do with learning. By tradition in phil, I'm not so sure we are talking about political or cultural tradition as much as applicable method in thinking.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

Would you have joined the party in May 1945?

My grandparents were liberated from Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, and Salzwedel in April and May of 1945 after stints in Auschwitz-Birkenau, and after a death march in one case. The only party my family joined after that date is generally remembered (in politically correct terms) as displaced persons camps.

So perhaps you'll understand if I'm a bit bitter about conservative views from "old Europe" that celebrate a time of cultural exclusion and condescension to minorities. My family has borne the brunt of a lot more than forum rhetoric.

And it should be no shock that the political correctness you so malign was Europe's reaction to its own profound shame about what it had done to itself.