Confucius

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

The problem is just how to omit and stay far away from contagious copying behavior for the sake of power accumulation and the spread of dogmatism across the globe (fascism, communism, socialism, islamism).

Add ethnocentrism to the list. THAT is why we need to study other traditions.

[Ron C. de Weijze]

There is nothing wrong with pride about your own roots and holding on to the values and norms developed from it. Just don't export them globally in multicultural dogmatism, cultural and moral pessimism and relativism, that we are just about killed by in our habitats these days by the politically correct leftist elites of this world.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

There is nothing wrong with pride about your own roots and holding on to the values and norms developed from it.

There is something wrong with assumption of superiority, though. No one in the modern world has the right to be sanctimonious. All our cultures, all our societies, all our countries have things to be ashamed about just as we all have things to be proud of. So let's learn from the best of other cultures.

Just don't export them globally in multicultural dogmatism, cultural and moral pessimism and relativism, that we are just about killed by in our habitats these days by the politically correct leftist elites of this world.

We've tried it the opposite way before -- you'd be wise to remember what blind patriotism brought Europe in 1914 and what ultranationalism and ideology brought it in the 1930s and 1940s.

[Ron C. de Weijze]

As you surely know, that was exactly the movement I described before: the group polarization of national socialism, where votes are counted as individually independent confirmations, democratically correct, while they really were 'wir haben es nicht gewusst' simplistic copies of one another, contagiously mimed, to gain power and implement the dogmatism of communism and socialism (Hitler: "national socialism is exactly like communism"), just like the multiculturalism international socialist elites are spinning and group polarizing now 60 years later. They have learned nothing.

[Aedes]

Interesting, you are perhaps the first person in history to conclude that Naziism is just like modern liberalism. Perhaps we could devote a thread to exploring the differences.

Originally Posted by Ron C. de Weijze

just like the multiculturalism international socialist elites are spinning and group polarizing...

You'd do well to be analytical about this rather than throwing labels around as if you're Karl Rove. Multiculturalism, socialism, and elitism are different things and heterogeneous unto themselves. So when you use phrases like this in two consecutive threads, it's not clear to me that you even know what you mean because you're casting such a wide net.

[Ron C. de Weijze]

Sure, I was just being on the defensive trying to prevent even more people blissfully ignorant moving to one side making the ship capsize.

[Aedes]

Well, I don't think it's fair for you to assume that ignorance is of necessity responsible for liberalism, political correctness, socialism, or multiculturalism -- any more than it would be fair for me to blame ignorance for patriotism, nationalism, conservatism, tradition, etc.

It's easy to oversimplify political views with which one disagrees. But let's assume that there are intelligent, thoughtful, well-intentioned people with all but the most extreme and antagonistic views. That's the only way to keep these conversations from falling apart!

[Ron C. de Weijze]

Absolutely, as long as these moderates tend to include self-accommodation and self-assimilation of those moving into their backyards and not cast that burden onto the untouchables of their own cultures, in spite of their interdependent Brahman politeness to one another.

[GoshisDead]

Lieh Tzu learned archery and, when he was able to hit the target, he asked the opinion of
Kuan Yin Tzu on his shooting. 'Do you know

why you hit the target?' said Kuan Yin Tzu.
'No, I do not,' was the reply. 'Then you are not good enough yet,' rejoined Kuan Yin Tzu.
Lieh Tzu withdrew and practised for three years after which he again presented himself.
Kuan Yin Tzu asked, as before: 'Do you know why you hit the target? 'Yes,' said Lieh
Tzu, 'I do.' 'In that case, all is well. Hold that knowledge fast, and do not let it slip.'
'Mental and bodily equilibrium are to be sought within oneself. Once you know the
causal process which makes you hit the target, you will be able to determine the operation
of Destiny beforehand, and when you let fly you will make no mistake.'
The above principle does not apply only to shooting, but also to the government of a
State and to personal conduct. Therefore the Sage investigates not the mere facts of

preservation and destruction, but rather the causes which bring them about.
From the Book of Lieh Tzu.

If you are adverse to learning non western traditions from a non-western source, at least appreciate western traditions developed independently of the west.

[Ron C. de Weijze]

Originally Posted by GoshisDead

If you are adverse to learning non western traditions from a non-western source, at least appreciate western traditions developed independently of the west.

I'd rather say, I appreciate anyone's tradition developed independently, for those are the only ones that can validate (independently confirm or deny) mine so that I know what I can rely on.