Truth and Belief

[perplexity]

Originally Posted by Isa

If "Truth" is just a word
Then there can be no sense of "Truth" without the word,
So why did anyone have to develope/coin the word "Truth" to begin with?

We say "true" to denote agreement.

The definitions of "truth"

Truth - Definitions from Dictionary.com

and "true"

true - Definitions from Dictionary.com

all require some sort of agreement or actuality.

This is how the word is actually used.

[Isa]

Originally Posted by perplexity

We say "true" to denote agreement.

The definitions of "truth"

Truth - Definitions from Dictionary.com

and "true"

true - Definitions from Dictionary.com

all require some sort of agreement or actuality.

This is how the word is actually used.

This is true (sorry), these are some of the connotations of the words “true” & “truth;” however, you really need to be careful not to fall into this trap of looking for the meaning pea in a semantic shell game. All of the connotations conveyed in statements like: her love is true. . ., he truly cared. . . , his work was true to the original. . . , he is a truthful man. . .; do not convey the meaning or the denotation of the term “The Truth”, required when it is used as a philosophical term.

The denotation of the word “Truth”, as used philosophically, would be in the sense of: “1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.”


In the philosophical sense, the phrase:

He tried to find out the “agreed upon meaning of a matter”

does not come close to conveying the intended use of the term “Truth” in the statement:

He tried to find out the truth.

[perplexity]

A truth you try find is a truth yet to be agreed.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

Plato was deeply concerned with the difference between belief and truth.

What are some of your thoughts?

Some beliefs are true, and some are false.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

Plato was deeply concerned with the difference between belief and truth.

What are some of your thoughts?

Some beliefs are true, and some are false. I used to believe that Rio de Janeiro is the capital of Brazil. That is false. Now I believe that Brasilia is the capital of Brazil. And that is true.

[perplexity]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

Some beliefs are true, and some are false. I used to believe that Rio de Janeiro is the capital of Brazil. That is false. Now I believe that Brasilia is the capital of Brazil. And that is true.

Beware of loose logic.

If you used to believe that Rio de Janeiro is the capital of Brazil but that is false, the truth could be that you used to believe that Brazilia is the capital of Brazil, which was false before Brazilia was built, when Rio de Jeneiro was the Capital of Brazil, which is true.

While belief is not immune from truth,
a truth is not immune from disbelief.

There is no truth exept to rely on belief, though belief does not rely on truth.

That is the crucial difference.

[Isa]

Originally Posted by perplexity

Beware of loose logic.

If you used to believe that Rio de Janeiro is the capital of Brazil but that is false, the truth could be that you used to believe that Brazilia is the capital of Brazil, which was false before Brazilia was built, when Rio de Jeneiro was the Capital of Brazil, which is true.

While belief is not immune from truth,
a truth is not immune from disbelief.

There is no truth exept to rely on belief, though belief does not rely on truth.

That is the crucial difference.

Actually, belief does rely on truth. A belief is simply a view that one holds that, at this point, has not been proven or disproved. Once there is sufficient proof to prove that a belief is true, that belief becomes a truth. Once there is sufficient proof to disprove a belief, that belief becomes a fallacy.

If one believes a fallacy, it is not a belief, it is a delusion. In that I am not Jesus Christ, if I would believe that I was Jesus Christ, that would not be a belief, that would be a delusion.

[perplexity]

By definition a belief is held for want of truth to rely on:

"confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof"

Belief - Definitions from Dictionary.com

What may or may not eventually turn out to be true or false is alternatively called uncertainty, which is nothing to rely on, nor what we usually call belief.

To the contrary, we credit the strength of belief in terms of certainty.

The requisite reliance is actual, not theoretical.

[Isa]

Originally Posted by perplexity

By definition a belief is held for want of truth to rely on:

"confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof"

Belief - Definitions from Dictionary.com

What may or may not eventually turn out to be true or false is alternatively called uncertainty, which is nothing to rely on, nor what we usually call belief.

To the contrary, we credit the strength of belief in terms of certainty.

The requisite reliance is actual, not theoretical.

I would have to agree with you.

" . . . we credit the strength of belief in terms of certainty." The more certain one is of a view, the stronger the belief; correct? 100% certain of a view would seem to imply that it is an accepted fact: a truth. 99% certain of a view would seem to imply a very strong belief; with a 1% chance of being wrong: but even with a chance of being wrong, I would not qualify that as an uncertainty.

I was not saying that a belief is something that a person has no idea whether or not it is true; rather that one cannot be 100% certain that it is true.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by perplexity

Beware of loose logic.

If you used to believe that Rio de Janeiro is the capital of Brazil but that is false, the truth could be that you used to believe that Brazilia is the capital of Brazil, which was false before Brazilia was built, when Rio de Jeneiro was the Capital of Brazil, which is true.

While belief is not immune from truth,
a truth is not immune from disbelief.

There is no truth exept to rely on belief, though belief does not rely on truth.

That is the crucial difference.

Yes. It is true that I believed that Rio was the capital. But what I believed, namely that Rio was the capital, was false. A simple distinction: (1) whether it is true that I believed that Rio was the capital: (2) Whether it was true that Rio was the capital.

The answer to (1) is, yes. The answer to (2) is no.

No problem.