Truth and Belief

[perplexity]

"Actual truth" is infallible truth in drag, a belief.

"... for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so:..."

(Hamlet Prince of Denmark, Act 2, Scene 2 )


Dictionaries attribute fallibility to people, directly or indirectly.

"What a piece of work is man!"

[Isa]

Originally Posted by perplexity

"Actual truth" is infallible truth in drag, a belief.

"... for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so:..."

(Hamlet Prince of Denmark, Act 2, Scene 2 )


Dictionaries attribute fallibility to people, directly or indirectly.

"What a piece of work is man!"

The forceps of our minds are clumsy forceps, and crush the truth a little in taking hold of it. --H.G. Wells

[Isa]

One more quote:

"When one admits that nothing is certain one must, I think, also admit that some things are much more nearly certain than others. It is much more nearly certain that we are assembled here tonight than it is that this or that political party is in the right. Certainly there are degrees of certainty, and one should be very careful to emphasize that fact, because otherwise one is landed in an utter skepticism, and complete skepticism would, of course, be totally barren and completely useless." -- Bertrand Russell, "Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?"

[perplexity]

Truth relies on agreement.

Agreement is actual.

[l0ck]

theres no conclusive evidence anything exists beyond the mind
but we dont have to believe that do we? No
and most of us don't
belief is a choice made by the individual
but it seems that truth is what we believe it is
then our reality's are that as well
consciousness seems to be inter-connected because large groups of people believe the same things
awareness however is very separated because belief and truth are still separated
but i can honestly say awareness wants to heighten and we can see that by changes in the environment and changes in beliefs
take this forum for example
or the internet, it exists does it not?
its a brand new reality we consciously created
and its entire purpose is to heighten our awareness
why has this come into formation?
think of how the internet will forever change the truth and the beliefs
we as separated beings now with the internet have the chance to compare our reality's with each other and expand our beliefs
and that can only lead to heightened awareness
think of how that will change the environment once awareness reaches the point where belief and truth intersect

[Justin]

I just got into that a bit in another forum and it's funny, because truth and belief are also two different schools of thought. Truth - Philosophy and Religion - Belief. This is the difference between thinking with the brain or thinking with the mind. I agree with you here l0c. Here

[perplexity]

To illustrate:

Scientific axioms are beliefs, infallible truth imposed upon the indivudual, indoctrinated not chosen, as with religious belief in the middle ages.

Truth relies on such an agreement. In order to agree we convene to agree on what an agreement is. To play the game of logical science one is obliged to abide by the creed of science, and this applies if you do but agree with yourself.

Perception is all about agreement, pattern recognition.

[Isa]

Originally Posted by perplexity

To illustrate:

Scientific axioms are beliefs, infallible truth imposed upon the indivudual, indoctrinated not chosen, as with religious belief in the middle ages.

Truth relies on such an agreement. In order to agree we convene to agree on what an agreement is. To play the game of logical science one is obliged to abide by the creed of science, and this applies if you do but agree with yourself.

Perception is all about agreement, pattern recognition.

Firstly; just because someone/some group attempts to impose their will on the masses, by doing it in the name of, or misusing, something that would otherwise be considered a positive virtue/concept (faith, science, peace, justice, love, “the betterment of mankind” etc.); does not mean that heinous abuse is inherent in that virtue. It just means that evil, greedy, power hungry humans will do, say, and use anything to get what they want. Just look at any dictator/tyrant, to see if this isn’t the case: in other forms of government, it may be more subtle, but just as true.

Secondly; we should never concede to behaving like a herd of ignorant cows being led to the slaughter. Whatever “powers” you may perceive that are trying to influence/impose their beliefs/infallible truths on you, the only real power they have over you, is the power you give them. The worst thing about becoming an “ignorant cow” isn’t loosing the power of free thought; it is that it empowers the very group that is being abusive: Nazi Germany would not have happened if enough people would have refused to become “ignorant cows”. We do not have to “agree” with anything we know to be wrong.

Thirdly; to accept that truth is nothing more than something that is agreed upon, or worse yet something that one is forced to agree with, relegates “truth” to being nothing more than the most powerful dogma. What is the purpose of philosophy, reason, logic, free will; if the only truly important thing to achieving “truth” is having the power to force other people to agree with your dogma? And though I agree that this dogmatic jihad has, and does go on; I refuse to accept that this dogmatic jihad has anything to do with an honest pursuit of what is actually the Truth, other than just being another obstacle.

[perplexity]

"Truth" is a word.

For the word to be meaningful we have to agree what it means.

[Isa]

Originally Posted by perplexity

"Truth" is a word.

For the word to be meaningful we have to agree what it means.

If "Truth" is just a word
Then there can be no sense of "Truth" without the word,
So why did anyone have to develope/coin the word "Truth" to begin with?

Even if we all agreed that the word "Truth" meant anything that Tyrant A would say; it seems that we would not really have agreed upon what the essence of "Truth" is, but rather we would now have to come up with a new word that would convey the meaning of the concept that we currently us the word truth for.

You're right; semantics and the essence of something always seem to be at odds.