The Awful Nature of Sin

[Israelite007]

The awful nature of sin folks is a very serious thing. Some People think they can just weeze through life having everything they want with no penalty well it's this thinking that caused Man to Sin in the first place. See this is the dangerous nature of pride and why it is a deadly sin.

When you know you shouldn't do something whether because God says its wrong or you know its wrong and God says its wrong and you don't do it DESPITE your conscience what happens here is pride overruns doubt. You should doubt that God will show mercy to this attitude but yet something overcomes you and tells you that "you can do whatever you want after all you're in control of your own life" and that's pride, pride says "I can do it by myself" pride says "I can do whatever I want and you can't stop me", pride is the rebellion of sin at it's core root.

So then you commit to sin or a life full of sin. Now think of this God's way. He created you to be a rational moral being and when you don't rationalize your morality you are creating your vanity. Let the people of God see sin for what it is and not legitimize it with the rest of the world. The world legitimizes sin by saying "everyone else is doing so I can to." "If they get away with it so can I." This is the reason Sin is SO DESTRUCTIVE! Because it is this contagious affect that presents a dilema that leads the masses into a gathering of sinfulness and depravity.

One reason God hates sin and abhors it is because God is Love and the way he can share that Love is through relationship with you but the only way this relationship will work is if you see sin as he does otherwise you are simply serving two masters or still in rebellion. The point is that Sin destroys your livelihood of mind, Kills your compassion of heart, and steals the thing God loves the most...you.

The positive side to this whole ordeal is this...without evil and sin in the world there wouldn't be True Love because True Love is ALWAYS a Choice of the free will to make and you cannot make this in a world unhinged by sin,evil and wrong. This is how God uses it to his benefit however it doesn't make it okay by any means because God wants to share that love with you forever not just for a lifetime. If it wasn't this way wouldn't we just be programmed to Love? Is that what God really wants? No I don't think God wants half of your heart he wants all of it given freely.This is how we know the dangerous power of sin and how to overcome it...with love. People see Hell as a very a bad thing for good reason but not sin as bad I don't get this because sin leads to death which leads to hell now do you see the downward spiral?

Some people say a Loving God wouldn't send people to hell, this is rather offensive to me! Well think of it this way if there wasn't a Hell then everyone would go to Heaven and if everyone went to Heaven then God would be one big pushover of puppy love. Puppy love is where you love the idea of something or someone but that's not real or mature. But if God is pure love then Hell would exist in order for God to expose the truth of its reality...its extreme..so extreme..that God may not love the idea of Hell but he created it for the purpose of showing you that you have a choice, Heaven or Hell, Life or Death, If we didn't have these choices then we wouldn't have a totally unhindered free will but God made them because in order for our free will to be free we must be in a universe of balance with universal laws governing the courses of possibility and sensibility. If there was only Heaven then we would already be there but since we are here there must be a choice. I do speak of a Literal Heaven and a Literal Hell and some of you may not accept that..so then I ask you is all there is, is planet earth? Is there just a big void in space and time or is there another realm outside of our realm? Is this just a big dream where we all just wake up from? What is real? How do you define real? what do you see?

I define real as only best I can. Real is the picture behind the picture the message behind the message the language of the language the love hidden in love this is reality this is God's way of talking to us, this is real what you don't see what you don't understand what you may not even know, you only catch a glimpse of it as you walk on the way as you rise and fall as you pursue intelligence as you see life.

What do you see? What do you hear? Question these things and ponder on them for what we don't see and what we don't hear that my friends that may be the real inside the world of the real that may very well be the Kingdom of Heaven hidden in a field waiting for someone to find.

Matthew 13:44
44"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.

[dpmartin]

ok Israelite007 you have a lot here so if it be ok with you, I would like to focus on judgement....

If one has a choice, why? I mean it could just because you can. And why? Then if one can makes a choice, then who made the judgment? And how does one prove the result, or is the result already experienced once the choice is made?

[Didymos Thomas]

You speak about heaven and hell. What is "heaven" and what is "hell"?

[Aedes]

And what is sin? It might be fair to generalize that a sin is a human thought, intent, or action that is in opposition to God's wishes.

But tell me how you would weigh the following three people:

1) a godfearing, religious person who constantly sins, who gambles and lies and cheats and drinks and betrays and even steals, but is aware of these transgressions and prays to God for forgiveness despite knowing that he'll sin again tomorrow.

2) someone who has never considered or been told about God, who is neither theistic nor atheistic, who doesn't really do anything bad, but also doesn't do anything exceptional, who leads a simple and humble and unassuming life in which no action is really "godly" but no action is really "sinful" either

3) someone who lives a model life, who goes out of his way to help others, to ease suffering and pain, to give, to self-sacrifice, and never ever commits an action or even has a thought that is sinful; but in his heart this person self-consciously rejects God, and in fact believes that his humanitarian actions in this world are meant to correct the injustices that God allows.

How do you reconcile these three?

[dpmartin]

Israelite007
Some of what I am trying to get at is this and what do you think

To make a deliberate decision is the obligation of man, he must make a deliberate decision and will make a deliberate decision according the judgement he accepts as the truth of a statement without evidence or investigation, or fact.
He believes his pain for he experiences it, but if he had judgement before hand he would make chooses to avoid the experience of pain.
But if he know not pain then he know not what to avoid unless he be aware of the judgement of pain before hand. So should he accept fact as the truth of a statement without evidence or investigation without experiencing it first. Then he knows what choice should be made to not experience pain. But if he choose to require the experience first.
Therefore being aware of the fact which gives view, he trusts the Fact, then his choices should be wise. But if he know not the fact he have no good judgement. For the fact is and he who chooses to trust or to trust otherwise has made his own judgement upon him self.
Does not the desire rule your choices then change from the desire for the desire is in the heart and the change of is do to the knowledge of the fact. The fact does not change but man can.

[Justin]

Israelite, if you started this thread, you should respond..

[Aedes]

Agreed. This is I believe the 2nd time in which I've asked this scenario of you, and I'm interested to hear a well-considered response.

[Aristoddler]

My apologies if I seem to have missed the topic somehow, but the only real topic of debate I see in the original post is whether or not hell exists.
The rest seems very conclusive and closed for debate.
It is an interesting subject however, and I would like to see a revised version of this post that offers more room for community involvement and less room for spectators.

[Israelite007]

Okay well I have been giving it thought so the topics are
Hell,judgement, and sin

Forgive me for not responding I will think on these things and replay later today

[Israelite007]

You all ask some difficult questions I hope that my answers finds you well. Ya'll have asked about Heaven, Hell, Choice, Sin, and Judgement So I will try this in succession.

Why were we created with a choice, what is it? What does sin have to do with it? why are our choices and sin brought to judgement? Why does judgement ultimately lead to Heaven or Hell? Thats that jist of what you have all asked separately of course but this is the basis no?


Someone had asked about if we have a choice, why? and if so why the judgement? Very important questions yes thank you they are a good starting point I might add.Why were humans created with a choice and what for? And what is sin?

When G-d created the universe he intended for us to to live a life in complete fellowship and relationship to him. It says on the days G-d created the earth(not literal it could have taken millions of years for the universe to be created) The day he created man G-d called it very good and the others day only good! On the basis of the Word we started out in a sin free enviorment. Until the serpent tempted Eve. Now let's see how this unravels I am sure you know the age old story but I will put a spin on it.

Genesis 1:8-10
8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:27-31
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Genesis 2:15-17
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

When G-d speaks the oceans roar, the mountains bow down, the trees leap, the fields sing, the very sun shines, but why oh why when G-d speaks do his people not obey?! This has to be the most profound thing in the universe do you want to know why they don't obey G-d's command? It's because when G-d commands us to do something regardless of who,what or where it's a law he is the commander of the universe and when we don't listen to his instruction of good conscience we are in fact rebelling against his command and trying to create our own reality which is apart from him this is why it's serious.The best I can describe sin is offense to God his commands, laws, or instruction. Now knowing that he is a good God his commands not to kill not to steal and not to eat fruit that will bring our own death is for our own good and the good of others! We should want to obey not only because he is our creator but because it is for our own well-being....


So the reason they would die from eating is not because its poisonous or something but because it is G-d's will for us to obey and live or rebel and perish. When we don't obey our creator G-d we are saying "I don't need you to make my choices for me" in a sense we are playing G-d. That is why it is a serious offense to disobey our creator because he is our maker and who says to their maker "what have you made?"


Isaiah 29:16
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?

So back to the original question about choice. Yes we have a choice, G-d gave us the choice to eat the fruit or not this was our free will to obey G-d or not. That is what it comes down to. You can reject everything I say but that's because you have a choice to some say we don't really have a choice but that's denial and their choice to believe so. The purpose of choice I think is because G-d didn't want to just program our choices for us he gave us the option to choose him or not. It's our choice that is our only true power we have as humans and what makes us differnt from beasts we don't act on instincts we act on free will which even that belongs to G-d. You can live anyway you want I can't tell you what to do but I can give you a message.
So what is this choice? To choose G-d or be rejected by him, to live for him or die apart from him. To know him or to be alone. That is the basis of our choices, the most prevailant question in history should be "What is G-d?" the second is like it "What is life and why are we here?" Now given we are all in this together and there are many choices in life to make what I am saying here is these are the most important

1. What is G-d to you

2. What is life to you

On the basis of these values you will live your life according to what's in your heart, mind and soul. Choice exists for the purpose of making us free moral agents even the angels rejected G-d and have a choice

Matthew 25:41
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into theeternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I think G-d gives us a choice to see if we really love him because again true love is not a program it's a choice. The purpose of choice obviously comes back to the question of love.

Now what about Sin someone asked? This is a very serious issue. Sin is any offense against G-d in fact sin is hatred to G-d because his children will want to obey and not anger his righteous nature. Anything G-d commands and we do not do that is rebellion unless there is some remission of the command which most cases there is not. In most cases sin is harmful to us (suicide, bitterness, envy, pride,sloth, grudges) and is harmful to others (lack of concern for poor,charity,adultery) So sin is really living for ourselves or the flesh.


Do not let your hearts be decieved lest you fall into temption. Sin is defilement and will be abolished at the end of time. Make no mistake G-d did not create us to practice Sin. It angers G-d and he brings the sinner not sin into judgement.


The reason for judgement then is because G-d is just. He does not just let us live our lives with no accountability to his creations of course he expect us to live righteously because he has given us the tools (ministry,bible,laws, hearts, minds, conscience) When you play ignorance you always lose because G-d made us all intelligent beings. Of course some are less fortunate but that is rare and if everyone cared this would not be any issue. So however severe the punishment is it may be based on the level of knowledge of G-d the more you know the more accountable you are. We are all accountable to G-d because we are his creations. YHWH is just in the sense that he not only punishes sin but forgives it as well he provided his own son Yashua for our salvation and we have no excuse he is our rescuer this is why we must repent of our sins and turn to Yashua and obey G-d's laws of love for living our lives for him. Those who choose not to just want to live their own lives of rebellion. As the saying goes "Some Rather reign in Hell than Serve in Heaven." Some people simply won't give up their free will.


Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The reason Hell is the result of punishment to some is unbearable. However people we must realize that Hell no matter how painful how dark and and how terrible it has nothing with the fact that it is separtion from G-d and ultimately love YHWH's Love that is the most unbearble of it all. Some people are terrified at the thought of the tempature, torture, and horror but that did not lead me to G-d what lead me to G-d was the thought that It would be total separtion from G-d and love and not just any love his love..perfect love...that..is..
unbearable...a...world..without...G-d...is...a...world...without...Love...

Hell was intended for the tempter the Devil and his Angels but it just so happens that those who continue to live a life of sin and not a life of loving of G-d and serving G-d then that is where we are sent. Man is fortunate though because the Angels are not offered the chance to repent everday Man can turn from his ways and follow Hashem's ways.

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

As for Heaven well that is something truly wonderful and I love to talk about it! There is not much in the Word about Heaven but can you truly imagine?! Just think we see all this beauty,love,joy, happiness, on earth how much more in Heaven! Some people may want to go to Heaven just to get out of Hell but that is being fearful of punishment and is not the way of YHWH. The Way of YHWH is love,peace,joy,mercy,grace,friendship, and humility these are all spirits that Yashua demonstrated and this is the way of Heaven and the way his children should live. Just think how much more Love in Heaven! How much more Peace in Heaven, some have peace on earth but peace in Heaven is an eternal joy. Imagine that always being happy never becoming sad it's just so incredible! But to also think many people enjoy Love,Joy,Peace here on earth those are part of G-d's nature how can you live at YHWH's expense people could be enjoying his nature with no desire to honor or glorify G-d with those blessings. How can anyone enjoy's things of G-d and not G-d its just so mean and cruel to do to our maker I am repulsed by those who live their lives to please themselves and not YHWH.


That's all for now, I hope I have answered your questions well and in good faith. Peace be with you friends always. Please recognize the maker of those things we enjoy they are because of him. He entitles us to good pleasure. How wonderful. I am sure I will bring about many more questions and thoughts so keep on questing for G-d!