Religion and Philosphy

[cdenlpz1]

Hello everyone, I am a student at a community college and have been doing some research on the relationship of religion and philosphy. My question is can or should one exist without the other? What are your thoughts? Thanks for the help.

[iconoclast]

dear cdenplz1, could you be as specific as possible about what you are asking. These are very complex ideas. The relationship of philosophy and religion is deeply interwoven historically - but the occurance of scientific method has allowed philosophy to address questions first raised by religious speculation in scientific terms. Withoput a more definitive question this is the best i can do for you - good luck with your studies. iconoclast.

[skeptic griggsy]

I am a naturalist/skeptic/rationalist-agnostic/ignostic/strong atheist.Albeit a schizotypal, I objurate all the supernatural and the paranormal.I am an atheologian- posts in so many sites for atheism. I see philosophy as a foil to combat religion. [As Huxley defined agnosticism, it is just another term for rationalism- a method.Ignosticism denies that God means anything.]

[boagie]

Originally Posted by cdenlpz1

Hello everyone, I am a student at a community college and have been doing some research on the relationship of religion and philosphy. My question is can or should one exist without the other? What are your thoughts? Thanks for the help.

cdenlpz1,

I would say they cannot exist together,philosophy deals with reason,religion with faith.Religion I would say is interested in creating meaning where none can be found.Philosophy ideally is interested in truth,they in no way compliment one another,in fact faith is oppossed to reason and as Martin Luther stated, reason is the enemy of faith.I would say also that religion is emotional,philosophy intellectual.Cdenlpz1,this topic will be moved I am afraid,this is the area for introductions,it is an excellent post,just needs to be relocated,Justin or Pythagorian will likely be in touch.

[jmtillery]

This is a very interesting question which certainly brings up many perspectives and points of view to seriously consider. I'd like to begin by saying that I am not an expert in the field of philosophy, nor theology, as I am still very much a philosophy, and to a lesser extent, theology, student, learning new ways and engaging new ideas everyday.

In order to get a better understanding of the question at hand, in my view, let's first consider the literal definition of the word "philosophy".

In Greek, where philosophy originated, the term means "The love of wisdom". This can also be translated to mean "love of knowledge" or "in search of truth". Keeping this in mind, philosophy can and does cover every topic imaginable including religion and theology. We can have a philosophy of anything from "The philosophy of ice cubes" to "The philosophy of ultimate reality". Therefore I ask "can we not have a philosophy of religion and theology?" If we are truly seeking truth, even in religion, I believe the two can and does co-exist. I do agree that religion, for the most part, as one post clearly states, is based upon "faith", "feelings", "emotions" and I'd like to add the "unknown". Philosophy, on the other hand does in fact deal with logic and right reasoning, contrasting the above referenced basic theological views and perspectives, but religion, too, same as philosophy, deals with the "unknown", hence the definition of "faith" as it relates to religious beliefs.

Another way of looking at this is to consider philosophy's sub-category "Value-Theory" which, of course, deals with what one places great value. These values often include cultural as well as religious beliefs. In this sense philosophy and religion, although not identical, are in a way one in the same.

Most philosophers consider the core philosophical quest which has to do with the "one" and the "many". The "one" is considered and believed to be the very "one", for lack or a better term, "thing" that the universe centers itself. There is nothing more once you reach, find and discover the "one". The "many" is everything else in existence, even virtual, that revolves around and supports the "one".

Although this is only a philosophical theory at present, some philosophers believe the "one" is indeed God, while others believe the "one" to be water (think about this before you discard it. Water is needed for all life forms as we know it. Without water, life, as we know it, would cease to exist. Hence "many", in fact, revolves around water).

To put it another way, consider that we can always ask a question relating to any topic and, hopefully, we'll get a satisfactory answer. As long as we are asking questions, we are really exploring the "many", meaning everything other than the "one" although our quest is to eventually reach and discover the "one". Once we reach the point where we can no longer break it down and ask any further questions, this, theoretically, is when we have found the "one". No further questions can be asked nor are they needed.

Now if we find that, indeed, the "one" is God, or perhaps gods, this brings us back to the theology question. If God exist, and if God is the "one", then we have to accept the idea that theology or religion and philosophy go hand-in-hand and cannot be totally separated.

I welcome anyone's comments, especially from the atheist and agnostics, regarding this philosophical theory and cognitive hypotheses.

J. Mark Tillery
Florida, USA

[boagie]

JMTillery,

It has been said that religion and philosophy are both preparations for death but where philosophy tends to define itself in terms of a quest for knowledge, love of wisdom and all that. religion claims to have knowledge in the absolute, knowledge of first cause, the prime mover ect.., well still maintaining that it is through faith they have this absolute knowledge, irrational but there you go. It is a little like the difference between swimming and that of treading water, treading water is dogma, swimming is curiousity.

Once again welcome to the forum, your off to a great start!

[jmtillery]

Boagie,

First I'd like to thank you for reading my post and considering my point of view while at the same time I welcome your differing perspective.

You bring up a very good point that is definitely worth consideration. I never really thought of comparing and constrasting religion and philosophy in the way you described, until now. I would difinitely welcome any further comments from you regarding this very issue. Would you care to further expound upon your original constrast - comparison?

I look forward to reading your reply.

Thank you!

Mark

[Justin]

Great thread and excellent question. Although he sort of introduced himself, the heading is on topic and it's starting to become a good discussion under the correct location.

Hello everyone, I am a student at a community college and have been doing some research on the relationship of religion and philosophy. My question is can or should one exist without the other? What are your thoughts?

What difference does it make?
Really think about that question… While it’s a valid question from a classroom point of view, it really makes no difference because we are living with both Philosophy and Religion. There’s long been disagreements between philosophy and religion and I’ve come to the conclusion that Religion is just a Philosophy and philosophy exist in all of mankind. One doesn’t have to be a philosopher to think, desire, know and create.
Philosophy is seen as a study of written works, when it’s really a resurrection and step in spiritual unfolding. Philosophy to some can be considered the result or effect of prudent study or to others Philosophy is the desire to unfold spiritually and discover the peace-of-mind and contentment of knowing and creating rather than registering information to later recall and repeat.

Both Religion and Philosophy are the product of two different schools of thought. One thinks outward and the other thinks inward. One thinks with the brain and his body and the other thinks with his mind and spirit… the rest are somewhere in between.

Thinkers
There are really two types of thinkers in this world. Those who think outwardly and those who think inwardly.

Outward Thinking
Those who think outwardly generally think with the brain,(the mechanism that electro -whatever registers senses of the body). Their knowledge comes from the old school of remember and repeat. The brain is trained by outside sources of information by remembering and repeating the information received.

We are taught to think outward as a society. In that process, depending on the culture and influences surrounding us, the outward thinker will naturally lean towards religion and embrace faith and the leadership of whatever religion they were immersed in. To the outward thinker, external influences have the most control in their lives.

Inward Thinking
Inward thinkers will lean towards philosophy because they begin to discover that inherent spark of desire within themselves and practice diligently to communicate with it and let it shine.
Jmtillery gave a Greek definition of Philosophy and the love of wisdom is not how I’d describe it because it is really just thought. While outward thinkers may go to books to study philosophy for their want and will to obtain more knowledge, they are still thinking with the brain, just remember and repeat when needed. Being smart or intelligent doesn’t bring a person any closer to the cause.

Philosophy to an inward thinker is just a term like Religion. It is just another word in the dictionary describing a term for the understanding of the outward thinkers. Philosophy to the inward thinker is like a seed of desire that grows each time you feed it.

So I believe there are just two types of thinkers. Inward and Outward, and the many in between. Religion relates more to Outward thinking with the brain and Philosophy toward Inward thinking of the mind.

Can Religion and Philosophy co-exist?
Most certainly, they are now. Could they exist one without the other? Who knows and who really cares… My point is what difference does it make because in reality, mankind must discover the cause to have influence on the effect. If Religion is an effect and you stop there, then how are we going to change the world we live in without recognition of the cause? Currently, Religion has sent many countries to war and will continue to. Religion is just another Philosophy of the effect. The answers lie within the cause.

When mankind unfolds to the point where many have become inward thinkers, it will be the courtship of Religion and Philosophy and preparation for marriage. When we understand our selves, then the world around us will transform. Until then, we are self destructing and Religion is one of the great causes of this effect.

Philosophy and Religion are two separate seeds of thought entirely and the human race is going to continue to spiral towards self destruction if there isn’t a marriage. After all the complex arguments, it is basically two separate thought patterns of one thing. If man is inspired to think inwardly, Philosophy and Religion will work in harmony as one. Outward thinking prevents this type engagement.

How can man know the truth if man cannot know himself?

Chicken or the Egg
What came first, the chicken or the egg? Neither. First came the thought, then came the manifestation of that thought.

1. Thought - Energy registering sensations of the body or universal thinking which comes from within. Either way, thought is the very first impression prior to anything else. Thought comes first, then manifestation… the expression of that thought.
2. Philosophy - Could be more described as desire for understanding and peace-of-mind yet applied to everything. The sum of what you know… recognition of oneself. Philosophy is also considered a study.
3. Religion - Just another Philosophy.

My point is, it all starts with thought. Nothing will manifest itself into creation with out thought first. The thought would then be the cause of the effects… hmm…

We live in a world of effect. Most often times effects can blind out the cause… Doctors treat effects and Science measures effects, yet we continue to live each day not knowing the One cause of all effect. Philosophy and Religion are just an effect. Until man discovers the cause of all effect, he’ll keep putting out fires while others start a new cycle. Medication to treat effects will cause other effects because they don’t know of the cause. Science will discover and analyze one effect after another in a never ending cycle until science recognizes that they cannot measure the cause of all effect and understanding Cause could ultimately control and manipulate all effects.

Philosophy was born on the day of consciousness in man. Religion is just another philosophy. So in essence it’s One, yet separated by the thinking of man… which is also One.

I jumped... topics
This is exactly why it's difficult to talk about one area of philosophy without clarifying it with another. I've sort of jumped topics but it's in support of the actual question. It all intertwines. Comes from One and ends back at One. Man creates whats in between by his thoughts. Thoughts really do become things.

[Doorsopen]

I must disagree with the statements that religion and philosophy are 'opposites'. Philosophy begat religion, and religion is merely a codified form of philosophy.They share the same objective: that of understanding the truth about our existence. Likewise Logic and Science are children of Philosophy, and share this same objective.

[Fido]

Originally Posted by boagie

JMTillery,

It has been said that religion and philosophy are both preparations for death but where philosophy tends to define itself in terms of a quest for knowledge, love of wisdom and all that. religion claims to have knowledge in the absolute, knowledge of first cause, the prime mover ect.., well still maintaining that it is through faith they have this absolute knowledge, irrational but there you go. It is a little like the difference between swimming and that of treading water, treading water is dogma, swimming is curiousity.

Once again welcome to the forum, your off to a great start!

The goal of both philosophy and religion are the same in this respect: Each tries through its vision of truth to empower man and mankind. Religion perhaps preceeds philosophy, but not by much. For every man saying to bribe this god or that god there was likely to be another saying, oh bulshet.

As technology, god is a failure, and not that he does not answer every prayer; but he usually says: no. The technology that has come from philosophy is extensive, but use less without an application of philosophy to its use. And that is where we fail, that in having technology we lose sight of the underlying understanding that kept previous tecnologies in balance with nature, and having technology we lose sight of the God that made each person his brother's brother.

Technology makes some people believe there is no God, and if there is no God then it is all about this life, this status, this wealth, this power; and nothing of the eternal. If there is no God they reason, then there is no sin. God did not create sin, but man, for his benefit, enjoyment, and power. No person can live as anything but an animal without either philosophy or religion. I accept the value of philosophy, but I doubt it has led me far from the conclusions of religion.