Free will versus God's Soveriegnty

[tMeeker]

The controversy over free will has been a long debated topic which arouses a sense of deep profound impacts, relfected upon the very nature and mindset of a human being. The problem with this idea, of an inconsistent universe, almost as if the entire world functions on the level of luck and chance, is relating the concept that everything occurs in the manner of sporadic and random events......which is a blatant disregard for the God who created this universe. On the other hand, the idea of fatalism, which conveys that we have no choice, and that whatever happens is out of our control, really is of the same nature of rugged individualism,(only on opposite ends of the scale), meaning that if we have no choice, then how can we be at fault for our actions? It is my belief that God holds the very nature of free will and His soveriegnty at a perfect balance point or median, which is almost in another dimesion, and beyond what we as humans can feebly comprehend. Whenever the fall of man occured, we cannot even begin to understand the profound impact this had upon the human civilization. Not only did we loose many well-natured physical aspects which we once had in a perfect world, but it is my belief that we also lost a large portion of our comprehension ability, which ranges beyond our inner knowledge. Our human minds cannot grasp a large majority of spiritual and very, at this point, unanswerable questions, which must be left for a Higher Power in another world. God holds free will and His sovereign providential control at a absolute finite balanced point, which we have to yet to fully understand how we can make a choice, by our own free will, and we also are fullfilling providence and what was destined to happen, in the essence of robots. For those who do not comprehend how God can hold these two ideas at a beautiful median, one can relate to the trinity for an example........How can God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit all be three separate beings, and yet all one at the same time. We simply cannot understand how this can be, because the idea that something could be two different concepts and yet one, is almost on a scale of its own, and lies in another dimension of our minds.

Please share what you feel on this matter, and what your beliefs are upon the free will of man.

[boagie]

tmeeker,

Personally in order to decide if one has free will, it seems to me one has to understand ones circumstance.If you understand that the world is your context and that context defines,just as evolutionary development is dependent upon the relatively constent physical environment.Understanding this,you might appreciate that all is reaction,reaction to a given context[the physical world].There is only a choice of the reaction but react you will.You do not even have a choice not to react,for that too would be reaction to context.So,no,man does not have free will.He has more choice perhaps than the other animals but whatever he does is reaction to---------to what? Too context.So,free will vs God's soveriegnty,well,there is no free will.

[dpmartin]

Tmeeker, not bad

Back at the garden, God gave mankind the power to eat of every tree, including the Tree of Life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But He instructed mankind to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But yet mankind was still able to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is the power of God to even give access to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Ordained by God’s Word. For what good is power in the hands of some one that would do what he can rather then what he should. Mankind was given dominion over that which was on the earth, not ownership, but dominion. Which is a responsibility to the Word of God for the Word of God has dominion over mankind and gave dominion to mankind, if you are born of mankind you are automatically responsible to the Word of God, tough noogies, if you don’t like it. Mankind is destined to this relationship with the Word of God. When it come to Truth the decision is not yours. Whether it is the Truth or not is not yours to decide, for it is the Truth no matter what. The decision is whether to meet your maker now, or later. In other words, turn to the Word of God while one still has breath. Or face Him later. The destiny in a sense is the same. But will it be in mercy and grace, or in judgment.


***
First is God The Father that which all things are from, even His Word.
If we look at ourselves, in knowing that we are created in His image. This is not to say that two arms, two legs, and a head is that image. For what ever configuration of bone and flesh the Lord saw fit for us, would not change that we are mankind.
As in the trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There is The Father from which all that there is, is from. The Son, His Word, the Truth the Way the Life the Voice of the Lord, the first from the Father. And the Holy Spirt by which all the will of the Almighty is done. Thus the trinity in one.
The source of the expression that will be executed, the expression of the source that will be executed, and the execution according to the expression of the source.
As in the image of God, mankind can come up with an idea, express that idea, and do it. That is how we govern ourselves, make bridges, make movies, fly to the moon, find the short cut to work, and solve the plumbing problem with the toilet. Each individual soul is one in three parts that differentiates mankind from any other Life manifesting organism in the earth. Things like the heart, mind, and body accommodate this ability for mankind.
Second is God The Son, His Word, made manifest in the flesh as Jesus the Christ who proclaimed God His Father many times. The Word of God is from God, a part of God, and is God. Just as your word, is from you, a part of you, and is you.
His Word is Truth for if He speaks it, it will be. The Almighty cannot lie for if He speaks it. It will be. Through His Word is that which all may know Him and all of creation obeys Him. For the Truth is the Truth no matter what the Truth is.
Whether all mankind is aware of it, or not. It is still the Truth.
Third is the Holy Spirit or Spirit Of God, which moved upon the face of the waters, sealing us unto our salvation, and pretty much executes the will of God the Father after He speaks it. The Father Speaks, the Spirit executes, and it is so. According to science community after the big bang all was like dust. So it is possible that all matter and space where at rest or evenly balanced like as if all the air on earth was the same temperature with even amount of humidity and pressure. Then The Spirit moved on the face of the waters. Like a
block of molding clay. There it is, God makes stuff happen, according to what He said.

***

**********
Mankind must be under the Truth, The Way, and The Life, for mankind cannot make any of these. Only declare or deny they are, or lie about it.
**********

[boagie]

Moderators,

Do not some of these postings qualify as religious spam? There does not seem to be any philosophical content whatsoever.I like to feel I am debating with another person not God himself,you just know he is going to cheat.Some sites have a policy of not allowing non-philosophical postings on their sites,as matter of quality control.So lets hear from the administration on this one, one way or another.

Come over to the darkside!

[dpmartin]

Nobody likes exposure to the Truth, that does not seek it.


**********
Mankind must be under the Truth, The Way, and The Life, for mankind cannot make any of these. Only declare or deny they are, or lie about it.
**********

[Justin]

Originally Posted by boagie

Moderators,

Do not some of these postings qualify as religious spam? There does not seem to be any philosophical content whatsoever.I like to feel I am debating with another person not God himself,you just know he is going to cheat.Some sites have a policy of not allowing non-philosophical postings on their sites,as matter of quality control.So lets hear from the administration on this one, one way or another.

Come over to the darkside!

boagie, no this is not spam. Please review the following: SPAM.

Based on the nature of the discussion, it's correctly in the right category. I have found no spam, nor any reason for a reprimand in this discussion. For those of you who want to talk religion, this particular category is the one to do it in.

Philosophy applies to everything. Just because it may or may not be in line with our own philosophy, doesn't mean it's wrong. This is a philosophy forum for discussion on any area where philosophy is needed and it most certainly pertains to Religion. There may be other forums out there that have rules regarding the exclusion of religion or religious topics, however this is not one of them.

So long as the discussion doesn't directly attack or belittle an individual, it is accepted here. That's what makes this different. We cannot limit Philosophy to certain criteria or to a certain group of people when it applies to everyone... everywhere... and everything we do... including religion.

This doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to agree with these posts, but for those who want to travel down this road of discussion, they are more than free to do so.

boagie, shake it off, don't sweat it, and jump into those discussions that best fit your energy at the time. Rise above that which isn't a part of your world and this type of discussion won't even bother you.

[boagie]

Justin.

Ok Justin,but I believe the word of God to the believer is undabateable what function does it then indeed serve? I shall take your advice however and simply avoid such contexts. Thanks for replying!

[Justin]

Originally Posted by boagie

Justin.

Ok Justin,but I believe the word of God to the believer is undabateable what function does it then indeed serve? I shall take your advice however and simply avoid such contexts. Thanks for replying!

Just because someone is a believer in the Word of God... wait, what exactly is the word of God? Is it the Bible? Not really because in the beginning was the word before a page was ever written?... My point is that there is a lot of Philosophy tied to religion and a lot of discussion to be had regarding it.

You see, if you feel your philosophy is right by your perception... that's ok. Philosophy is the "sum of what we know", based on what we experience and perceive. It's ok to disagree and it's ok not to debate as well.

Regardless, thanks for posting and I appreciate your understanding.

[boagie]

Justin,

Perhaps we could just call it philosophy and hope nobody notices! This site makes no pretence of being a purely philosophical site---------right? At anyrate I have done all I can for the cause---------carry on Christian soldiers!! Sorry Justin,its not really an understanding but a resignation.

[dpmartin]

well put, Mr. Justin