The nature of the Almighty

[boagie]

Irishcop,

Have you seen the error of your ways lad? Can we assume you have found safe harbour from the storm,or is he,he that has been lost at sea,warring against those princpalities of his soul.Shall I drop these flower"s petals into the dark waters of this distant ocean.Are you out there lad?

[Irishcop]

Originally Posted by boagie

Irishcop,

Have you seen the error of your ways lad? Can we assume you have found safe harbour from the storm,or is he,he that has been lost at sea,warring against those princpalities of his soul.Shall I drop these flower"s petals into the dark waters of this distant ocean.Are you out there lad?

Haha Boagie Longfellow, Touche'

Lo, another tangent and this one is on duality.

Art not there a duality, universal in us all, Sir Boagie? It doth not mean to confuse us, ye it can give us bearing, for without two points of reference how then canst we find our way? Doth not the sailor asea need the Pilot Star even as the Southern Cross?
Without a South, what then is North? Art they not connected, even out of our sight, though we perceive them to be unreconciled, even at odds? Verily, they art one and the same, though they appeareth opposites, wed one to the other, by lines deep in the Earth, then also far into the heavens. As in a lodestone, they are one and the same. Surely without it we would die, even as the Sun burneth. And, without it everything wouldst stop in its tracks.
What other marvels and revelations hideth from our eyes of understanding?
Praise the Lord, thy God for science, for it hath created us and suffered us to thrive, though we have foolish men at each pole with a raised voice to the world, declaring that the other existeth not.

[boagie]

Irishcop,

Actually I shall have to take your word for it,I am as familar with Longfellow as I am Christian doctrine,well not quite.Duality is indeed an interesting topic, obviously for Christians as well,for they made non-duality their Eden,from which they were force into the wilderness by God.He sure can carry a grudge can't he! I liked the punishment he put on the snake,something like,you will crawl around on your belly from now on-----------WOW! What was he doing before.

Actually most of the Christians that I know are not even aware of the meaning of Eden.In the East, their religions/displines are very much into non-duality considering duality the illusion,where Christians tend to focus on duality.It is a very significant point for quilt,judgement and payup time,Christianity has been refered to in the past as a shopkeepers religion,all debt and credit, now there is a duality! Actually there is a feeling for spirituality in the contemplation of this duality and non-duality it opens one to wonder,accept where the answer is already provided for you which of course is not to be questioned.Actually I think Science/physics is affirming the concept of non-duality,it seems apparent in general systems theory and hinted at through Process Philosophy.Irishcop,glad your back!!

[Irishcop]

Originally Posted by boagie

Irishcop,

Actually I shall have to take your word for it,I am as familar with Longfellow as I am Christian doctrine,well not quite.Duality is indeed an interesting topic, obviously for Christians as well,for they made non-duality their Eden,from which they were force into the wilderness by God.He sure can carry a grudge can't he! I liked the punishment he put on the snake,something like,you will crawl around on your belly from now on-----------WOW! What was he doing before.

Actually most of the Christians that I know are not even aware of the meaning of Eden.In the East, their religions/displines are very much into non-duality considering duality the illusion,where Christians tend to focus on duality.It is a very significant point for quilt,judgement and payup time,Christianity has been refered to in the past as a shopkeepers religion,all debt and credit, now there is a duality! Actually there is a feeling for spirituality in the contemplation of this duality and non-duality it opens one to wonder,accept where the answer is already provided for you which of course is not to be questioned.Actually I think Science/physics is affirming the concept of non-duality,it seems apparent in general systems theory and hinted at through Process Philosophy.Irishcop,glad your back!!

Again, I would have to disagree.
I think duality is a common fiber, Yen and Yang, Good and Evil, etc and etc.
Especially, in the religion of Science, duality abounds. Take the duality of light, is it a wave, or a beam? Even TRIPality is accepted, such as in dark box experiments; does the particle travel through this hole or that. Is schrodinger's cat alive or dead? The answers seem to be... not alive, not dead, and neither.
About your knowledge of Christian Doctrine, how can you be so fervently opposed to it, if you admittedly do not have familiarity with it? I detest Islam, but I have familiarized myself to it.
Just for the record, the Bible doesn't say Eve was tempted by a snake, it says Satan appeared to her as a serpent. Who knows what that is really supposed to mean? Is it an actual animal, is it a metaphor? The point seems to be lost in the details here.
I personally believe Eden and everything in it is a metaphor. Which is not heresy to say, because Jesus Himself explained things in parables. If Genesis is taken in that context, there are many profound things to be gleaned from it. The mistake, as I see it, is taking the metaphor literally, obviously the Earth is older than 6,000 years, and it wasn't created in 144 hours, but that's not to say the Bible is in error, merely the reader who takes it literally. It's a pity that clergy through the ages have never took up that cross, because it has needlessly provided fodder for opponents.

Do I believe in Science, of course I do. Do I believe in the Bible, that's obvious too. The key as I see it, is to read what it means.

Thanks for the welcome, but are you sure you're glad, aren't I always showing you that you're wrong?

[boagie]

Irishcop

I am unsure what you disgree with, both are realities one more apparent than the other and true on the level of that consciousness pondering it.Science is not a religion.Duality abounds, is not a revealation.

"About your knowledge of Christian Doctrine, how can you be so fervently opposed to it, if you admittedly do not have familiarity with it? I detest Islam, but I have familiarized myself to it."

I grew up a baptist,that does not make me an authority on Christian doctrine,but enough to appreciate the absurdity. I am very happy to find a Christian able to read Christian symbolism,most of your Christian bothers and sisters are morons and insist on standing by the absurd.

"Do I believe in Science, of course I do. Do I believe in the Bible, that's obvious too. The key as I see it, is to read what it means."

Irish,you are not understanding on the level of the average Christian,literial interpretation is the norm and that is why it is impossiable to respect.

"Thanks for the welcome, but are you sure you're glad, aren't I always showing you that you're wrong?"

Irish,you certainly have your own perspective.

[dpmartin]

Boagie
not to tag team you, but all I have been trying to get across is:

There is no religion in the Kingdom of God, only the wealth of His Righteousness handed down through Jesus the Christ. Words like "religion","Christian", and today’s "church" are works of men. It doesn’t take a profit to see that religion is use for the self righteous and those who seek to control and or manipulate others.
The Living God is to be worshiped (Loved, great admiration devotion for) in Spirit and in Truth. Not with pomp and circumstance. It is the Truth that stands between and individual and the Living God, everything else is a lie.

[boagie]

dpmartin,

You have an unusual stance,one I find some common ground with.Most Christians I believe would take you to task for stateing that its institutions are being used to manipulate.It is the secret of every atheist that he wishes he indeed could believe in what would be most pleasant to believe,it is a practicality some people just cannot manage on the evidence provided.I believe spirituality is innate to the nature of man and a positive quality,as long as it is not corrupted by the will to power.Spirituality is the business of the church,when it wishes control also over secular institutions its will to power is self-evident,and must be treated appropriately as a political entity/enemy.

Irish,

That comment you made about the snake not actually corrupting Eve but that it was the devil possessing the snake which inabled him to talk and thus corrupt Eve--so the devil made him do it.Does that really sound sane to you? It is a sincere question.It is the old yes or no situtation.





"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... It does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity." Carl Sagan

[Irishcop]

Originally Posted by boagie

Irish,

That comment you made about the snake not actually corrupting Eve but that it was the devil possessing the snake which inabled him to talk and thus corrupt Eve--so the devil made him do it.Does that really sound sane to you? It is a sincere question.It is the old yes or no situtation.





"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... It does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity." Carl Sagan

I think you are still focused on the tree not the forrest. It was not my intention to envoke the ol' " The devil made me do it" cop-out. Rather, I intended to provoke a study in the metaphor.
The serpent appeared to Eve as a beautiful thing, and so it was. Eve percieved the serpent (sin) as an alluring option. Eve, choose from her own free will, and vanity, to partake in sin. The rest of the metaphor is very fitting, and just as telling of the human condition even today.

[Irishcop]

Originally Posted by boagie

Irishcop

I am unsure what you disgree with, both are realities one more apparent than the other and true on the level of that consciousness pondering it.Science is not a religion.Duality abounds, is not a revealation.

"About your knowledge of Christian Doctrine, how can you be so fervently opposed to it, if you admittedly do not have familiarity with it? I detest Islam, but I have familiarized myself to it."

I grew up a baptist,that does not make me an authority on Christian doctrine,but enough to appreciate the absurdity. I am very happy to find a Christian able to read Christian symbolism,most of your Christian bothers and sisters are morons and insist on standing by the absurd.

"Do I believe in Science, of course I do. Do I believe in the Bible, that's obvious too. The key as I see it, is to read what it means."

Irish,you are not understanding on the level of the average Christian,literial interpretation is the norm and that is why it is impossiable to respect.

"Thanks for the welcome, but are you sure you're glad, aren't I always showing you that you're wrong?"

Irish,you certainly have your own perspective.

I agree that literal interpretation of the obviously (to me) metaphoric portions of the Bible has provided fodder for the opponents which they have used against the faith. It has also dampened our scientific and technological progress.
That notwithstanding you should take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

BTW, in and of itself, Science is not a religion, but it is made one when it supplants religion as a believe system. According to Webster, by definition it becomes some people's god, when it is "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith" .

[boagie]

Originally Posted by Irishcop

I think you are still focused on the tree not the forrest. It was not my intention to envoke the ol' " The devil made me do it" cop-out. Rather, I intended to provoke a study in the metaphor.
The serpent appeared to Eve as a beautiful thing, and so it was. Eve percieved the serpent (sin) as an alluring option. Eve, choose from her own free will, and vanity, to partake in sin. The rest of the metaphor is very fitting, and just as telling of the human condition even today.

Iriscop,

Actually this corruption of Eve is suppose to occur pior to the biteting of the apple of duality,which seems to make this interaction with snake impossiable,for in non-duality there is no other.Semantics perhaps,I suppose the eating of the apple could mean the birth of man and/or the coming of light into the world as consicousness.For innocence here,has to mean unawareness,and sin then,awareness.Well,all be smited!!Actually Eve could not have chosen from free will,again not possiable in a non-duality position.A metaphor is suppose to relate one concept to another, kind of like overlapping spheres if you know what I mean.Is this really a good metaphor? How much is there in it and how much might we mistakenly read into it.I suggest metaphor is something delightful which needs to be respected.