How can God not exist

[Mr. Fight the Power]

You went a little crazy with the run-on so:

Originally Posted by OntheWindowStand

because something had to always be or nothing could be

Why?

things like time can only be explained with a creator because of their nature

Why?

nothing indicates that about god

Circularity.

[No0ne]

Originally Posted by OntheWindowStand

Time cannot have always existed. Without a beginning time is a line stretching both forward and backward for eternity. In this model it is impossible to ever move forward or back in time because the start cant be defined without a start how can it exist? unless it created in which case the creator would be god.

If people where not around would time still be around?
The question is, why dose it exist in the state that it exist's currently

The start only has an existence due to the fact that one has defined or given it an existene due to the fact it was not able to define or make it's own existence.



__________________________________________________ ___________

But time cannont perceive it's self, therefore it cannot define it's existence and therefore making it's self exist as it exist's due to what it has defined it's self as.

So all that painting will go to waste if the painter dose not make another to perceive and define the art, and therefore making an object or concept have an existence with our thought.

For time is what it is, for that is what I say time is, therefore making time what it is, and thats what I say time is, and therefore I made time what it is.

And that's why time is what it is

[No0ne]

Originally Posted by OntheWindowStand

\

A chicken is not a chicken because it lays eggs. You are putting too much emphasise on the lingo. man didnt make it a chicken by calling it one it just was and we observed that

Due to the fact that it make's egg's... it was said in relation to the fact that a god must make an existence to be a god within that existence...

Like I said maybe that parable realtion was a little to tricky I'll try to put them into easy understandable word's nexted time, sorry for the mix up..

[OntheWindowStand]

Originally Posted by No0ne

If people where not around would time still be around?
The question is, why dose it exist in the state that it exist's currently

The start only has an existence due to the fact that one has defined or given it an existene due to the fact it was not able to define or make it's own existence.



__________________________________________________ ___________

But time cannont perceive it's self, therefore it cannot define it's existence and therefore making it's self exist as it exist's due to what it has defined it's self as.

So all that painting will go to waste if the painter dose not make another to perceive and define the art, and therefore making an object or concept have an existence with our thought.

For time is what it is, for that is what I say time is, therefore making time what it is, and thats what I say time is, and therefore I made time what it is.

And that's why time is what it is

The problem with this though is that time is tangible separate tangible things can't just define a start for something. the painter analogy is flawed because if you asked the painter the start drawing a line the goes on forever in both directions he couldn't the line you gave has a start and end

Originally Posted by No0ne

Due to the fact that it make's egg's... it was said in relation to the fact that a god must make an existence to be a god within that existence...

Like I said maybe that parable realtion was a little to tricky I'll try to put them into easy understandable word's nexted time, sorry for the mix up..

thanks for clearing that up and that depends on definition of god in the context that you are thinking of it your absolutely right

Why?
because the laws and limits of the universe tell us that


Why?
that has been stated several times but ill do it again time is linear therefor it could not have always existed thats the simple way of putting it



Circularity is not a reason something didn't have to have created god but something had to have created this reality that you and I live it

[Mr. Fight the Power]

Originally Posted by OntheWindowStand

Why?
because the laws and limits of the universe tell us that

No they don't.

Why?
that has been stated several times but ill do it again time is linear therefor it could not have always existed thats the simple way of putting it

No, why could time not have a spontaneous existence?

Circularity is not a reason something didn't have to have created god but something had to have created this reality that you and I live it

No, your argument is circular because it appears as if you are saying that God wasn't created because it is not in his nature to be created.

To see if I can prove my point, answer the question I asked earlier:

If I must assume that all that is has a creator, why must I not assume that the God has a creator?

[No0ne]

Originally Posted by OntheWindowStand

The problem with this though is that time is tangible separate tangible things can't just define a start for something. the painter analogy is flawed because if you asked the painter the start drawing a line the goes on forever in both directions he couldn't the line you gave has a start and end

Yes correct, yet i did not mean that from the painter realtion, that's mainly why i put the off topic sign up, but since you see it that way..

Hence The start is the start you or another make's and the end is what you or another make's...

Time is omipresent...

I just didnt want to talk about time, but here is a link to a topic about cause and effect and start's and end's which is highly related to what you want to talk about http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum...html#post14217

And here's another thread that is about time, but not about start's and end's http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum...html#post13945

You title was no where clear to what you wanted to talk about

[OntheWindowStand]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

No they don't.



No, why could time not have a spontaneous existence?



No, your argument is circular because it appears as if you are saying that God wasn't created because it is not in his nature to be created.

To see if I can prove my point, answer the question I asked earlier:

If I must assume that all that is has a creator, why must I not assume that the God has a creator?

as for the first there have been several post concerning that and you are ignoring them

as for the second that would be irrational and just a convient way of perceiving time nothing indicates it has 'cycles' even if it did it still would have a existance that goes on forever in both directions forward and back but time is linear blah blah blah i said this already

and for the third because the existence you live needs a creator everything tends to disorder on its own something had to put into order

sorry for double post didn't address that other point and i did answer your question sorry if i didn't identify the answer somthing had to be forever.... my points are previous for Us to exist

Originally Posted by No0ne

Yes correct, yet i did not mean that from the painter realtion, that's mainly why i put the off topic sign up, but since you see it that way..

Hence The start is the start you or another make's and the end is what you or another make's...

Time is omipresent...

I just didnt want to talk about time, but here is a link to a topic about cause and effect and start's and end's which is highly related to what you want to talk about http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum...html#post14217

And here's another thread that is about time, but not about start's and end's http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum...html#post13945

You title was no where clear to what you wanted to talk about

sorry if you see it that way, its about the application that time has. Due to the title you could still talk about other subjects that deal with the matter in the title though.

[Mr. Fight the Power]

Originally Posted by OntheWindowStand

as for the second that would be irrational and just a convient way of perceiving time nothing indicates it has 'cycles' even if it did it still would have a existance that goes on forever in both directions forward and back but time is linear blah blah blah i said this already

You have said nothing and will continue to say nothing until you provide arguments rather than unsupported statements.

This is why I have only asked why and gainsayed.

[No0ne]

Originally Posted by OntheWindowStand

sorry if you see it that way, its about the application that time has. Due to the title you could still talk about other subjects that deal with the matter in the title though.

All thing's at one point have allway's not existed untill someone make's them exist, hence that would be the "so called undefined start"

The problem finding when that start was, or what person had started all the end's and other start's made from the first... it seem like even if it could be thought of... it could not be physicaly proven... only word's could..

[OntheWindowStand]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fight the Power

You have said nothing and will continue to say nothing until you provide arguments rather than unsupported statements.

This is why I have only asked why and gainsayed.

I have a question are you mentally deficient ??? the guy above this post got my point