How do Christians possibly rationalize these things?

[Didymos Thomas]

Aparently my minister is at rivalry with the catholics. But we are both christians, I don't understand. So, are the catholics evil? In comparisson?

We're all evil at some point in time, in certain circumstances.

I don't think anyone one faith tradition is any more evil than any other - or any more good than any other faith tradition. 'Good and evil' have nothing to do with your associations.

[socrato]

So good and evil are about how I think and act from it, not acting based on what I should follow from somebody else? I can judge right from wrong? Nobody should set rules or limits? If good and evil had nothing to do with associations then nobody follows that.

[Didymos Thomas]

So good and evil are about how I think and act from it, not acting based on what I should follow from somebody else?

Good and evil are descriptive terms. It's all about circumstance. For example, if I go out into the street and strangle the first person I meet, that's fairly evil. But if I strangle some lunatic with a gun threatening to slaughter a room full of children, I'm a hero.

It's about how you think and act.

Maybe you follow some good advice. That's fine. But following bad advice, which leads you onto a bad path; this too is your responsibility.

I can judge right from wrong?

As best you can, anyway. These sorts of judgments require cultivation, but, yes, I would suggest that we are responsible for these judgments and for cultivating these judgments.

Nobody should set rules or limits?

The 'rules' and 'limits' should be self evident with enough cultivation. Hence the value of studying ethics, practicing your faith tradition, ect.

If good and evil had nothing to do with associations then nobody follows that.

Ever seen the Cusack film Max? A Jewish art rep befriends Hitler just after the First World War. Cusack's character associates with the most evil man in history, but the way in which he associates with Hitler is admirable, and good. He positively influences a very disturbed man.

It's all context, circumstance.

[Holiday20310401]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

But following bad advice, which leads you onto a bad path; this too is your responsibility.

Yeah, for example, rules tend to be followed literally, and as such, we could never follow 2000 year old rules considering it to be good advice, let alone valid.

And the pope at the time when the catholics (roman) had power was named Innocent III. Ironic, eh. I mean, the papal state was evil in many ways. (Unfortunately I always get rejections if I make an absolute statement saying the papal state was simply evil. Oh well.)

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Ever seen the Cusack film Max? A Jewish art rep befriends Hitler just after the First World War. Cusack's character associates with the most evil man in history, but the way in which he associates with Hitler is admirable, and good. He positively influences a very disturbed man.

I heard about a soldier who confronted Hitler during world war I and was a jew but the soldier let Hitler go or something. Hitler got a lot of help from the Jews. People are really much the same, regardless of what religion they follow, so religions are stupid in that I believe they are a driving force for separation and reprisal. (Just basing that from the past of course)

[Didymos Thomas]

Yeah, for example, rules tend to be followed literally, and as such, we could never follow 2000 year old rules considering it to be good advice, let alone valid.

Depends upon the rule, though. Don't kill people. Sounds as reasonable today as ever. I also think that specific rules of the past can teach us something even if the rule seems archaic. In Leviticus there is a rule against wearing clothes made of more than one sort of fabric. Seems silly today with polyester and these sorts of things. But think about it - don't wear flashy clothes. That's the meat of the rule. Not too bad.

And the pope at the time when the catholics (roman) had power was named Innocent III.

Many Popes reigned during the Catholic Church's tenure as the center of European politics and power. Innocent III's family produced five Popes in all. All of which reigned during the period of unrivaled Papal influence in Europe.

Ironic, eh. I mean, the papal state was evil in many ways. (Unfortunately I always get rejections if I make an absolute statement saying the papal state was simply evil. Oh well.)

Many of the names are darkly comedic from our modern perspective.

[astrotheological]

man that is hilarious. Itr amazes me how christians, jews and islams are so daft.

[Didymos Thomas]

man that is hilarious. Itr amazes me how christians, jews and islams are so daft.

And it amazes me how quickly people will judge others without taking time to understand the others they judge.

[Khethil]

Originally Posted by astrotheological

man that is hilarious. Itr amazes me how christians, jews and islams are so daft.

I've quoted Astro's post here, but this isn't necessarily directed at him/her. If I may; however, beg their patience to quote it, I think this a good opportunity to express something. I dont' want to waxe confrontational here, but I believe this must be said...

<mounts soapbox>

To my thinking, the best height of the considered atheist mindset is one where such statements aren't seen. Religious views, especially by the faithful, are *great* material for debate, bonding, talking, sharing and dreaming; but they are not to be directly pooped on. Why? Because the mature atheist seeks to know and places a high value on his fellow human (because, well, "we are all that we've got, there's nothing more"). He takes into consideration others feelings - perhaps moreso.

Yes, I too believe its all really, really silly. But what I want to say is, "C'mon, isn't there enough divisivness in this world? Isn't there enough judgment and hate run amuck? Must we give other atheists a bad name by perpetuating the very culture of disdain and judgment that we are very-often the butt of?"

Theists have, in many ways, put their neck out on the chopping block by saying, "Yes, I believe". No, I don't buy a bit of it. But look at the human element! Look at the possibilities for gaining just a tad bit more insight into how people think.

Yep, I've been guilty of this - I have no illusions of perfection; but the aspiration towards enhanced self-betterment, deeper understanding and truly-empathetic mutual respect lies - I believe - at the heart of the mature atheist's potential.

<dismounts soapbox and runs for cover>

[astrotheological]

Originally Posted by Mephistopheles

Ritual Human and Animal Sacrifice

God sends himself to die for himself to allow himself to change a rule he created himself. (Jesus, New Testament)
Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God (Genesis 22:1-18)
Kill first-born humans and animals (Exodus 13:2)
More human sacrifice (Leviticus 27:28-29)
Jephthah Burns His Daughter (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)
God Commands Burning Humans (Joshua 7:15 NLT)
Josiah and Human Sacrifice (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT) (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)
Human Sacrifice (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)
Child Sacrifice (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible. This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.)
Humans are Fuel for Fire (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)
Burn Nonbelievers (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Rape

Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Slavery

Slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
How Hebrew slaves are to be treated (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
It is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
You can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Slavery is still approved of in the New Testament (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
Beating slaves who didn't know they did any wrong (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Murder

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB) (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT) (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Kill Brats (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
God Kills the Curious (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Killed by a Lion (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
Kill Sons of Sinners (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
God Will Kill Children (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women (Jeremiah 51:20-26) (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)
God Will Kill the Children of Sinners (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
More of Samson's Murders (The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)
Peter Kills Two People (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)
Mass Murder (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
You Have to Kill (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
The Danites Kill the Next Town (Joshua 19:47 NAB)
God Kills Some More (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)
God Promises More Killing (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
The Angel of Death (Exodus 23:23 NAB)
Destruction of Ai (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)
Killing at Jericho (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)
God Kills an Extended Family (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)
Mass Murder (Judges 20:48 NAB)
The Angel of Death (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)
Kill Your Neighbors (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)
Kill the Family of Sinners (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)
Kill Followers of Other Religions (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)
Murder (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)
Kill All of Babylon (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
Micah Kills a Whole Town (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

Look Christians enough of this believing in god to solve your problems because it won't solve your problems. God isn't watching you. He doesn't even exist. God! I mean gees! I mean dam*!
Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!Atheist alert!

[astrotheological]

Sorry sorry I just get carried away sometimes.





:sarca stic:: sarcastic: