No such thing as God.

[Didymos Thomas]

Allow me to also add that Christian documentation also teaches against blind faith. Paul said to believe a doctrine if it is sound. So believe it if it makes sense to you. He didn't say believe it just because someone said it, and much of Christian doctrine is based on Paul's writings.

And this advice is found in other Christian sources as well.

Heh heh, I never said it was a generalization over all Christianity, believe me when I say that I am not arguing on behalf of Christianity, cause I'm not. All I am saying is that it is written in the Bible. (Oh no, Solace used the B word! :-p) Paul, nor people who take his good advice to heart, can be faulted for the fact that, generally speaking, Christians don't take his advice. As I said, it is part of Christian documentation... so maybe more Christians ought to read it.

Unfortunately, there are ministers with large congregations who admit to having never read the entire Bible.

But you're right, we cannot generalize about all Christians in such a way. Just like we cannot say, given the Paul's teachings, that all Christians have a healthy degree of skepticism regarding religious notions, we also cannot say that no Christian has a healthy degree of skepticism. This is the sensitivity I mentioned earlier in the thread.

We have to watch our criticisms and not be too liberal with our accusations.

Furthermore, I can't say that religion is the cage I speak of, because some notions of the religion may not be outwardly be discriminating at all, or even limiting in thought.

Absolutely. And what's more, there may even be (I would argue there is) religious teaching that advises against discrimination and promotes learning and skepticism. Of course, there is also religious teaching that promotes ignorance and hatred.

But you've got it absolutely right. We cannot condemn all because of the mistakes of some.

[iconoclast]

the threads closed because i'm leaving it. there's no point trying to convince you of soemthing you just won't see. thanks for the lesson. think about what it means, as we appraoch upon a number of global issues we need to cooperate to address, that you dug your heels in so deep when there was nothing at stake. you free me from the burden of this task - for i see now there is no prospect of preventing the self-fulfilling propehcy of your fate.
goodbye.

[Solace]

icono,

you came here professing to have nothing in mind but pure intentions to save the species, when the truth is all you are is a frontman for atheism. You point the finger at religious people who say, "Give up what you believe, believe what I tell you to, or else (you will go to hell, etc...)" and say that this way of doing things is doing all the damage. Then you say, "Give up what you believe, believe what I tell you to, or else (we're all going to die, etc...)" I see no difference between you and them.

[Zetherin]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

the threads closed because i'm leaving it. there's no point trying to convince you of soemthing you just won't see. thanks for the lesson. think about what it means, as we appraoch upon a number of global issues we need to cooperate to address, that you dug your heels in so deep when there was nothing at stake. you free me from the burden of this task - for i see now there is no prospect of preventing the self-fulfilling propehcy of your fate.
goodbye.

*In Yoda voice*

Come now, padawan. Don't let your emotions get the best of you.

The next response out of either of you better be constructive. If you want to bash on people, throw rocks at the a nearby evangelist. But here...here we must advance. Icon, it's a bit childish of you to say "This thread is closed". Why is it closed? There are differences in ideas here, and they are being expounded upon in an intelligent manner - do not get upset! If you wish to share more of your views, we are open ears, I just as much as anyone. There is point in sharing ideas. Instead of trying to CONVINCE, just focus on SHARING. Your goal shouldn't be to push your views on others, but to enlighten them. They are the only ones that can take the next step. Furthermore, to even better and refine your own thinking, I think it's imperative to converse with others. We, all of us, posting from different parts of the world, sharing, for the most part, well thought out intelligible ideas.. Isn't that beautiful to you? Hell, even if you don't find it beautiful, don't you find it the least bit practically helpful?

And no, I don't believe you can say that just because someone believes in a God, they are "passing off their responsibilities". In your eyes everyone must have the same line of thinking, and never stray from things that aren't practical, and, if someone does, they are supporting the destruction of humanity? Let's please not act like any one of us has all the answers, or that any one of us is constantly helping humanity's survival We are all in this together, so let's not point the blame.

[MITech]

Originally Posted by GoshisDead

Isn't this like every third discussion on this forum?

The problem is that non atheists still can't get it in their head that there is just no such thing as god so wecontinue to have this discussion. I'm afraid that it will go on and on forever. Unless they start realizing that the belief in god is a delusion which is what I think it is. But ofcourse that will never happen.

[VideCorSpoon]

Those darn religious people. Trying to account for unexplained phenomenon. I mean c'mon, we can completely explain everything in the universe right now, so why do we need to provide a variable for the unexplained and supra-phenomenal.

Ironically, when atheists posit the existence of no God, they in fact underline the assumption that something like God exists. Even the negation of God has the concept of God within it. If atheists were true atheists, they would be agnostic.

[TickTockMan]

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

Ironically, when atheists posit the existence of no God, they in fact underline the assumption that something like God exists. Even the negation of God has the concept of God within it. If atheists were true atheists, they would be agnostic.

Hunh? I would think that if atheists were true atheists they wouldn't even trouble themselves to engage in the debate. They'd just smile and go about their day without giving it a thought.

[Didymos Thomas]

Those darn religious people. Trying to account for unexplained phenomenon. I mean c'mon, we can completely explain everything in the universe right now, so why do we need to provide a variable for the unexplained and supra-phenomenal.

Yes, it's a shame when religious people do not understand the literature they cling to.

Hunh? I would think that if atheists were true atheists they wouldn't even trouble themselves to engage in the debate. They'd just smile and go about their day without giving it a thought.

To never even engage the question would be rather close minded of the atheist.

[Angel]

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

Those darn religious people. Trying to account for unexplained phenomenon. I mean c'mon, we can completely explain everything in the universe right now, so why do we need to provide a variable for the unexplained and supra-phenomenal.

Scientists do not know everything. Even some of the things scientists do know about, they do not fully understand or fully explain. Take for instance Dark matter which composes more than 80% of the universe but yet we don't know what it is. There's also a conflict between the classical worldview given to us by Classical Physics and compared to that given to us by Quantum Physics.

A true scientists will never claim to be able to explain everything because that would imply he or she would know everything, which is not a true claim.

[TickTockMan]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

To never even engage the question would be rather close minded of the atheist.

Very true. Very true.

I was just responding to VideCorSpoon's post, which suggested that the Atheist who debates the non-existence of God becomes, by default, an Agnostic. I didn't agree with/didn't understand his statement. But then again I'm not terribly bright.