War. How much is enough?

[Holiday20310401]

Why we won WWII. Seriously, though I'm sure paper thought the scissors were too dull to be a threat.

[Aedes]

Hehehe, very nice.

[Fido]

My cat died this morning of pneumonia after getting run over by a car, which leaves me a 130 dallars short for the rest omy life, but at least I have one.
You know, I like conflict. I revel in death and in the machinery of death; but modern warfare is always so asymetrical, to use a garbage word -for a garbage idea. The Romans invented the modern army, but the Mongols invented total war: Annihilation. They were beat from the moment they showed mercy, because mercy is taken always for granted, and more is asked. They were so numerically smaller in number that they could not resist all they had given life to. No; fighting is good, and fighting produces a superior being. The way all of our ancients fought, man to man; honor against honor, and fate against fate was the improvement of mankind. If a man did not use his head as he should then it became the trophy of a better man. But war kills good and bad alike. War demands the most from the least. War demands no great courage from the winner, but it promotes the blindly obedient. At least the Mongols sorted the craftsmen from the peasants. Now, there is only one dishonor, and that is losing. So we attack with overwhelming force, and control with over whelming technology, and kill them all if we can so Allah may sort them wheat from shaff. It is too bad we do not see the value in self control, because as we act so shall we be judged, and God forbid that the people of the world should over run us, and judge us. Best; fido

[Aedes]

I'm going to take the above with a good bit of irony.

Sorry about your cat.

[Fido]

Originally Posted by Aedes

I'm going to take the above with a good bit of irony.

Sorry about your cat.

Me too. I was his person. thedumass.

[VideCorSpoon]

Sorry about the cat as well. “These are the tears of things, and our mortality cuts to the heart.” – Virgil

Conflict is one of those things that sounds nice in theory. But then it sucks when you actually get involved in it. But I think it is the Romans that invented total war. Look up what they did to Carthage. Not only did they kill everyone (400,000+) and raze the city to the ground… they went as far as spiking the ground with salt so nothing would grow there again…ever. Now that is total war. Now if Mongol horses had salt incorporated into their excrement… that would be something. Russia would really be a wasteland.

[Fido]

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

Sorry about the cat as well. “These are the tears of things, and our mortality cuts to the heart.” – Virgil

Conflict is one of those things that sounds nice in theory. But then it sucks when you actually get involved in it. But I think it is the Romans that invented total war. Look up what they did to Carthage. Not only did they kill everyone (400,000+) and raze the city to the ground… they went as far as spiking the ground with salt so nothing would grow there again…ever. Now that is total war. Now if Mongol horses had salt incorporated into their excrement… that would be something. Russia would really be a wasteland.

The Romans tricked them out of their children first, and killed the rest; and it took them some time to build up to it. The great advance was their army which round robined everyone, while everyone else stood and fought till they died in single combat. They did not realize they were fighting a machine with interchangeable parts, and they did not realize how cruel they could be; but except for sucking the life out of them, dividing and ruling them, that Roman government was not much of a burden.

The Mongols were like Islam that destroyed so much in rolling over it. Some times whole towns and cities laid waste. And they let some run ahead to the next town to help spred the terror. They were the first blitzkrieg. They used modern tricks, even a bullet proof vest of sorts, a silk shirt, and gun powder, as soon as they got it. And human wave attacks with prisoners driven to the walls by mongols to take the brunt of the attack. And that bow, double recurve that could shoot through armor. Europe was lucky they never threw their weight against us and found our weakness. Our strength has been what we have picked up from others and improved on, like gunpowder and steel. We have only learned latly to spred terror from the skies; but we call it shock and awe. It is just more terror.

[VideCorSpoon]

I really disagree about the Romans and Carthage thing. Seems like a very romantic lens is refracting historical events.

I also don’t know about Islam being a destructive force. We can credit Islam and the Muslims with preserving much of western thought during the dark ages. It's because of them we have ancient texts from Aristotle to Xenophon.

I mean… you posit a very skewed version of historical occurrences. It doesn’t bother you that there may be some factual bias?

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Fido

The Mongols were like Islam that destroyed so much in rolling over it.

The Muslims spread quickly, but they were not very destructive in the process. But the Mongol destruction of Baghdad (and annihilation of virtually every person in the city) remains one of the greatest shames in Islam to this day.

[Fido]

Originally Posted by VideCorSpoon

I really disagree about the Romans and Carthage thing. Seems like a very romantic lens is refracting historical events.

I also don’t know about Islam being a destructive force. We can credit Islam and the Muslims with preserving much of western thought during the dark ages. It's because of them we have ancient texts from Aristotle to Xenophon.

I mean… you posit a very skewed version of historical occurrences. It doesn’t bother you that there may be some factual bias?

The Muslims burned the library at Alexandria, and it was beyond priceless. At least that is the story as I remember it. But; the Cathagenians where not exactly nice people. They sold out Hannibal, who was their best man. They would not do what was necessary to make their society strong enough to resist the Romans, which would have required the rich sharing privilages and wealth with the average citizen. And no less than we do in our own way, they sacrificed many of their own children on the alters of their gods for nothing, trying to keep hold of the past. They made a lot of mistakes, but none worse than giving Rome cause to hate and fear them.

You know, I have read a lot of history, and I actually own a sizable library. I have got every one of Will and Ariel Durrants story of civilization, that I want, and I have read most of them. Either the Protestant Reformation, or Ceasar and Christ are good reads, and he often covers the same ground in different volumes, and almost always looks at Jewish and Muslim cultures beside European of the same age. The guy is really a good storyteller, But I may have some facts wrong. Feel free to correct me from the book.