Ideas to Reform the Penal System for Economic Gain

[Zetetic11235]

Heres the gist: Prisoners are either skilled, in which case they could be put to work for the good of society during their period of incarceration, or unskilled, in which case they could (maybe) be rehabilitated so that they can be put to work for the good of society during and/or after their period of incarceration. There are two facets to the penile system, punishment and rehabilitation. Why do we not put those prisoners who are skilled laborers or highly educated to work in their field? It is certainly possible to do so, and their work can in part pay for their own incarceration.
Any thoughts?

[Didymos Thomas]

Because that's slavery.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Zetetic11235

There are two facets to the penile system

I'm pretty sure this isn't the word you wanted to put here...

Why do we not put those prisoners who are skilled laborers or highly educated to work in their field?

So an imprisoned physician should be allowed (let alone compelled) to practice medicine? And a scientist compelled to conduct science? Etc...

Is the prison system organized enough to economically sustain the professional activities of a diverse class of professionals from different fields? Is it capable of monitoring these convicted criminals closely enough in their skilled activities? Is it able to secure licensure and credentialling for them when necessary?

Do we want the prison system to be an economically competitive system in which its societal mandate is contaminated by capitalistic considerations?

Finally, as Didymos writes, how would we prevent our prisons from becoming slave operations?

[Zetetic11235]

Not slavery, but rather endentured servitude, and it is not for the entierety of their life but rather for the length of their sentence. They do not have to be endentured servents, but they choose it in breaking the law. They also get to keep any money that is in excess of the expenses incurred by their containment, however they cannot spend said money on luxuries while incarcerated but rather it is saved for them upon relase. I fail to see how this is similar to taking innocent people from their homes and forcing them to work to further thier masters for no personal gain but avioding pain of death.
The prisons are already owned by private entities capable of providing the necessary framework in which to conduct this system, it is just a matter of contracting the labor while monitoring the prisoners whith cameras and perhaps RFID chips which I would not object to placing in a felon. Then apprehension would be quite easy.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Zetetic11235

The prisons are already owned by private entities

No they are not, they are publicly owned and funded.

[Didymos Thomas]

No they are not, they are publicly owned and funded.

Private prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfortunately, this is a common misconception. Prisons are owned and operated by private companies in the US.

Not slavery, but rather endentured servitude, and it is not for the entierety of their life but rather for the length of their sentence.

Indentured servitude is slavery, only slavery under certain conditions, generally concerned with the time of release from servitude.

People who are held against their will are inmates. People who are held and worked against their will are slaves.

They do not have to be endentured servents, but they choose it in breaking the law.

If I break the law, I have not decided to go to jail. I knowingly risk jail time, but I do not want jail time.

And yes, I consider prison labor to be slavery, even when conducted by state owned institutions. The private prison system I find to be absolutely revolting - we have a system in which people make money when others go to jail.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Private prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfortunately, this is a common misconception. Prisons are owned and operated by private companies in the US.

Jeez, didn't realize it. However, there are only 99,000 prisoners in private prisons out of more than 2 million total in the country.

[Zetetic11235]

They would themselfs be making money as well, it would be carefully regulated so that only a set percentage, call it a prison tax would be removed from their normal wages. It will actually ammount to a privilage, they can continue their work and recieve pay(though it will be more heavily taxed) they can choose their hours as long as they work a minimum ammount to pay off the cost of their incarceration.

I conceed to the point you made in reguards to the risk incurred as opposed to definite decision, though in the general case, most hope not to get caught but feel that they can deal with the consequences. Note that I said most and I know that I cannot prove the statement, I speak with more conviction to stimulate more discussion. Once the issue is stripped to its bare bones we can concern ourselfs with every implication of it and the quickest way is whatever gets everyones cards on the table.
Personaly, I would like to further understand your moral qualms with this system Didymos.

[Didymos Thomas]

Jeez, didn't realize it. However, there are only 99,000 prisoners in private prisons out of more than 2 million total in the country.

If the 2 million figure already looks monstrous, there is little consolation here.

They would themselfs be making money as well, it would be carefully regulated so that only a set percentage, call it a prison tax would be removed from their normal wages. It will actually ammount to a privilage, they can continue their work and recieve pay(though it will be more heavily taxed) they can choose their hours as long as they work a minimum ammount to pay off the cost of their incarceration.

Under these circumstances, the work might seem to be a privilege to the inmates. However, what you suggest here is not far from reality. Inmates do have the option to work at many facilities, some in jobs such as carpentry - skilled work.

Even here I have problems. We are still allowing corporations to profit off the squalor and suffering of other human beings. Such a scheme, like our prison system today, establishes economic gains for some so long as the poorer majority continues to go to prison.

Some fat cat benefits when the poor go to prison. Those profiting on Wall Street have no concern for those suffering in prisons. Such a system promotes corruption (like the War on Drugs - a way to felonize a large portion of the nation's population). That's my problem.

[Zetetic11235]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

If the 2 million figure already looks monstrous, there is little consolation here. .

.

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

We are still allowing corporations to profit off the squalor and suffering of other human beings.

This seems to me just a rewording towards your ethical standpoint with little definite grounds in reality. They recieve pay, they are incarcerated because they broke a law that is worthy of incarceration in the eyes of the public. Profit is not inherently evil but indeed can drive men to do evil things. Consider that if the prisoners pay for thier prison time, law abiding citizens do not and taxes are lowered. All parties profit.

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Such a system promotes corruption (like the War on Drugs - a way to felonize a large portion of the nation's population). That's my problem.

I agree with this wholheartedly, but the fact of the matter is that this is allready inplace, my intent is simply to maximize profit of all peoples, the public through tax cuts, the private companies through increase profit and the workers with a means to income while in prison.
I do see, however, that such reforms would actually weaken the argument against the war on drugs as it eliminates the tax burden tht the public has to carry so in this sense it may be a poor policy. I consider the war on drugs to be a grave injustice and a failed one at that, drug use is at an all time high! The only thing I don't understand is why the companies dont realize that they stand to profit off of drugs (especially marijuana) commercially rather than through criminalizing and taking control of the prison systems! The corporations should be presuring politicians to legalize marijuana and step back from the war on drugs stance gradually. I think that perhaps this is happening but very gradually.

Prvatisation of the prison system has its ups and downs.I'm not so sure that any of us can say that we know what the direct consequences will be, but we most definiately will find out.