New article about suicide

[Aedes]

From today's NY Times magazine, very worthy of discussion here!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/ma...ml?ref=science

[Didymos Thomas]

Great article. Thanks, Aedes.

In the third paragraph we find this:

The National Institute of Mental Health says that 90 percent of all suicide “completers” display some form of diagnosable mental disorder.

And I'm glad we have someone in the medical profession to help with this - how many people display some form of diagnosable mental disorder?

I look around and see some degree of mental illness is just about everyone I meet - and in myself as well. Not that I look around and see a world of schizophrenics or anything, and this isn't entirely pessimistic, but I see a great deal of mental unwellness, if that makes any sense.

[de Silentio]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Great article. Thanks, Aedes.

In the third paragraph we find this:
The National Institute of Mental Health says that 90 percent of all suicide “completers” display some form of diagnosable mental disorder.

What qualifies as a diagnosable mental disorder? Do depression and anxiety? Or is that term reserved for mental problems like schizophrenia?

I ask, because it seems that if they qualify depression as a mental disorder (especially "temporary depression") I see there figure of 90 percent as being a little skewed.

(sorry Didymos, you said almost the same thing. I guess I should have read your whole post before responding. Statistics just push the wrong buttons with me!)

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

What qualifies as a diagnosable mental disorder? Do depression and anxiety?

Yes. Well, major depressive disorder, hypothymia, etc -- there are multiple different disorders that fall under the categories of depression and anxiety.

I ask, because it seems that if they qualify depression as a mental disorder (especially "temporary depression") I see there figure of 90 percent as being a little skewed.

Pick up a copy of the DSM-IV -- there are strict criteria as to what constitutes a psychiatric diagnosis.

As to the prevalence of mental illness in the general population, I don't know a figure off the top of my head, but it's very very high. I'd guess 30%-40% or so have a psychiatric disorder (which basically means that the symptoms interfere with their normal life activities).

[diamantis]

To my opinion what the prospect suicidals should have in mind is that they should not do to their shelves what they do not want to do to the others.

[Didymos Thomas]

To my opinion what the prospect suicidals should have in mind is that they should not do to their shelves what they do not want to do to the others.

Maybe, but the conditions under which people tend to commit suicide don't seem to allow for that much reflection.

I guess I always understood that some suicides were impulsive, but I had no idea just how impulsive. The British coal-gas example really hit me, and the bridge examples were compelling as well.

I have a question to pose - How far do we go in preventing suicide? England phasing out coal-gas seems an easy decision to make. Suicide barriers on bridges, or even just higher railings, seems easy enough as well. What about a ban on handguns, though?

[GoshisDead]

Maybe we should build a Nerf World, Abuse the Material Rights of the masses to save the few.

Suicide became an issue with humanity as soon as humanity understood its own mortality in an abstracted manner. Once people understood that there was a possible choice to be made someone probably made it. I think the issue here is not about preventing suicide per se, but in diagnosing mental illness, and what rights do the mentally ill have in regards to their own choices.

[Didymos Thomas]

I think the issue here is not about preventing suicide per se, but in diagnosing mental illness, and what rights do the mentally ill have in regards to their own choices.

But mental illness does not necessarily mean more likely to commit suicide. How many mentally ill people do not commit, or even attempt, suicide?

I think you're right; we have to try as best we can to diagnose and treat mental illness. But given the impulsive nature of so many suicides, addressing mental illness seems only a portion of the pie. Guns account for a large number of successful suicides in the US, many of which seem to be impulsive - take away the guns and, if the article is accurate, we should see a sharp decline in successful suicides in the US.

what rights do the mentally ill have in regards to their own choices.

Do sane people have the right to take their own lives? Do the mentally ill have the right to take their own lives?

[GoshisDead]

Indeed to abstract it further from suicide, do we have the right to try and prevent someone's suicide? Who has the right to make a choice at all. I chose to talk about the mentally Ill and suicide #1 as the article states suicide is a good indicator of a person having been mentally ill, and #2 we are more likely as a society to restrict the choices of the mentally ill because we assume that they are not capable of many "rational' choices.

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

But mental illness does not necessarily mean more likely to commit suicide.

Yes it does. Statistically mental illness is the strongest predictor of a suicide attempt. Compared with the general population people with mental illness are FAR more likely to attempt suicide.

How many mentally ill people do not commit, or even attempt, suicide?

Many. But that misses the point. Risk is a statistical statement applied to a population. It doesn't predict the behavior of a given individual in the population.

Guns account for a large number of successful suicides in the US, many of which seem to be impulsive - take away the guns and, if the article is accurate, we should see a sharp decline in successful suicides in the US.

Guns are the primary reason why males are far more successful at suicide attempts than females. Females are more likely to attempt a drug overdose, which often is unsuccessful.

[/quote]Do sane people have the right to take their own lives? Do the mentally ill have the right to take their own lives?[/quote]The right under what body of judgement? Committing suicide is not illegal. Attempting it is. But I think most of us agree that irrespective of the crime, it's in the best interest of the criminal and of society for people with mental illness to get effective diagnosis and treatment.