Free will illusion?

[boagie]

YO!

I find dialogue on free will often avoids the obvious, to define free will as having choice is in my understanding not free will. Like all other creatures on the planet we are reactionary organisms. It is true we have a wider range of choices than many of our animal cousins, but we have no choice not to react, reaction is the only possibilty for life. Reaction is the basis of there being anything whatsoever--chemistry is our master. The world is relational, relations are established through reaction. Reaction is not choice, it is the way of reality. Consciousness itself is a reactionary process producing apparent reality. If this thinking is flawed please do enlighten. If the defination of free will is choice, what is the magic number of choices that establishes free will to humanity and not the rest of the animal world?

[xris]

Change the word to reaction or whatever you like to call it...we react to certain events that occur of course we do but we do or should with reason and consideration. We are a product of this life and its equations... we have certain valued inputs , if we observe those lessons we can exert our will,our free will to our purpose...Trying to call it something else or reducing it to a simple cry of hunger or anger is down right diculous

[TickTockMan]

This might be worth watching:

YouTube - Waking Life - David Sosa

[boagie]

Xris,

So, then your defination of free will is then choice, I ask again, what is the magic number that establishes the free will of humanity over the rest of the animal kingdom? And gain, you do not have the ability not to react, reaction it is basically what you are. Your identiy is your experience but to think that you are not governed by the same physical laws as the rest of the animal world is just plain ego speaking.

[xris]

Sorry but that only restated the accepted problem, most scientific philosophers are only to ready to keep ramming down my throat..Its one of those tooo dissected element of the human condition that we ponder on for too long and not really question the motives..If i could prove just one little aspect of the human world that is not that easy to explain, say telepathy or distant viewing our view of the humanity and its relation to this mundane existance would start being a lot more complex than we could ever imagine..The argument that the brain is just reactionary bit of machinery with no hidden nooks would be cast in to doubt..so all those who support the view that we have no free will are usually those who oppose any suggestion of pseudoscience that might crack their argument..

[boagie]

Xris,

When you have something substantial we can talk.

[TickTockMan]

Calling James Randi, are you in?

Challenge Info*-*James Randi Educational Foundation

[xris]

His requirements are for laboratory rats not human experiences.Now tell that to the US goverment who are spending millions on researching telepathy..I think the two replies ive received proves my point.

[boagie]

Xris,

If you have a statement to make which you believe is fact then please do enlighten us, until then we have nothing to work with.

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Sideline interest:

Did Carl Sagan in fact merely tear down old beliefs without putting anything better in their place? Far from it! Even for those who never met him, he left behind a treasure trove of published works which put the lie to that accusation. His life was dedicated, not to tearing down, but to building a positive, integrated world view capable of providing better guidance for human beings in the centuries to come than our ancient inherited mythologies could ever do.

[xris]

Do you think i live in noddy land of course i have heard of his gamble and yes it is impossible to prove telepathy by scientific means and i dont intend getting into another subject while discussing free will..BUT my supposition remains there is what i might call a trend that developes in all discussions that leads one to believe the certain mind set of certain debaters..sciophilosophers who deny any attention to pseudo sciences and will ridicule any mention of its worth...In my opinion for what its worth, if you refuse to accept it as a possibility then any discussions are fruitless as its a complete package of ideologies that conflict one with the other..