Atheists...

[boagie]

Hi all,

Personally I think the late Joseph Campbell the renouned mythologist and expert on comparative religions was right, today we are in free fall, we do not have a viable mythology and we cannot develop one until the rate of change slows down. Things are changing to fast to mythologize our new knowledges. Probably if one is to develop a new mythology it will arise upon the foundations of that wonder that science has and is opening up to us as we speak, but only after the dust has settles somewhat. Any new and viable mythology must incorporate the knowledge of its own time, and on this bases, one can then orient oneself to this new world, this new universe. You Have Inherited The Wind!! GERONIMO!!


Joseph Campbell Foundation

YouTube - SCIENTISTS CREATE ATHEISTS !! (Richard Dawkins)

[one-philosophy]

Originally Posted by Holiday20310401

As an agnostic you don't follow the Qu'ran, right? I mean, do you advocate for how muslims degraded woman, still do in some parts I think.

lol, I'm not agnostic. I AM muslim. I choose to be muslim. If I wasn't muslim I would probably be agnostic though.
My parents are athiest.
I choose to be muslim because of its scientific basis.
Also, I see it unfair to judge a religions teachings based on the practises of those who claim to follow it but don't practise it.
For example, I dont say christianity teaches terrorism if a christian were to blow themself up somewhere.
Take another example,
I see two cars I want to buy, a Ford Mondeo or an Alpha Romeo.
Lets say the Alpha Romeos an awesome car and the Mondeos not that great.
If I see someone drunk and driving the alpha romeo, then crashing, should I think to myself "Alpha romeos are unreliable" because of the action of the bad driver?
Likewise, should I say to myself "Do not follow the teachings of Islam because a few people who claim to be muslims have been known to abuse women and blow themselves up".
When I first looked into Islam, I had this steriotype of muslims. The reason I bought a Quran in the first place was to undersatnd the mind of why muslims commit such henious actions. But after reading it for a while, I learnt some things.
To name a few:
Muslims believe in Adam and Eve, mosus, abraham, david, jesus and other pophets.
Islam has a dirivative of salam which literally means "peace"
Muslims greet each other by saying "salam" (peace, nottice similarity between salaam and shalom).
Muslims are forbidden suicide,
Muslims cannot use fire to attack
Muslims can only go to war for justifiable reasons such as to liberate oppressed peoples.
Muslims cannot in anyway harm the innocent or those not involved in the war.
If a kill is made in the war, it should be quick to cause death so the persons pain does not linger. Torture forbidden.
Muslims are not allowed to hurt their spouses.
In Islamic practise, it is the woman who chooses to wear the hijab (headscarf). If you see a hijabi woman, ask her why she wears it.
Its usually for culture, or parents, or because she chooses to wear it because it is advised for modesty and she wishes to please her Lord.
In islam, men and women are equal, but they are also not the same. Women have some rights over men and visa versa in marraiges. These rights and the practises of muslim families are based around the natural physical and mental norms of men and women.
Islam is a very mis-understood religion; if you watch Fox or another tabloid medium, forget everything you hear about muslims.

PS: islam in arabic means peace,
so how can you have a peaceful terrorist?

[franc]

Originally Posted by boagie

franc,

Yeah but, is it as vague as nothing?

'Nothing' isn't vague. It's absolutely clear what it is - it is not.

[andykelly]

Originally Posted by boagie

andykelly,



The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim, the athiest simply doesn't buy into your over active imagination, and/or pretensions. Your the one who believes in fairies not the athiest!!

So funny how the average athiest lacks imagination, believe what you will (or don't believe what you will) but please try to develop your arguments. Confront a regular athiest about their non beliefs and they resort to something akin to extreme believers - ie get defensive and just state that they're right hmm very powerful argument

Open your mind, I'm not here to defend God as if there is a God he is naturally more than capable of self defence - I do though get really irritated by know it alls who in the light of day know as much as the rest of us - not much. If you state a belief try and justify it rather than resorting to petty purile comments.

[Holiday20310401]

Originally Posted by one-philosophy

PS: islam in arabic means peace,
so how can you have a peaceful terrorist?

When you get extremist about it,

Never allow introspect to meddle with false ethics that are 2000 years old,

Believing that God controls your life and that it actually matters,

when you consider yourself part of a religion; separating yourself from others

[boagie]

andykelly,

Which god are you talkinig about, I am fine with the Greek pantheon. A perfectly good philosophy site draged under by these dim witted conversations about imaginary beings---------your to old for imaginary friends!!

[andykelly]

boagie with all due respect this is what I've posted thus far in the thread, I was inspired to do so by a post which I've included

Originally Posted by SantaMonica1369

Just to play devil's advocate, because I agree completely, there's no proof that God doesn't exist...
Whats up with that?

If someone believes something and there's no proof against it, does that make it real?

Interesting idea

I'm all for people wishing to claim to be athiests - its supposedly a free world. Inherently my issue with their stance though is that its an arrogant premise. Who the hell is anyone to say that their isn't a God.

Athiests are comically guilty of the same arrogance that many of them direct at believers in stating this belief (or lack of a belief) ie how can they claim to believe in God when theres no proof.

Conversely how can an Athiest state that theres no God when there is no proof God doesnt exist.

Agnostics always made much more sense.

Who the hell is anyone to say that there is no God

Personally I do believe in God, my main question is what is the true nature of God.


Surely an athiest also has a burden of proof? As an athiest is stating they have a belief system - the choice to totally refute God's existence.
I'm not a bible basher - far from it. Historically religion has kept man in the dark on many levels. I'm much more scientifically based.
In fact I totally understand many peoples athiestic and agnostic stances re God and religion.

In fact the whole thing is an over simplification.

I have days where I'm agnositc, hell I have days when I feel athiestic lol
but I always revert sooner or later to my personal faith eventually.

Do I have a faith - yes to some degree, am I totally convinced? hell no

I stand by my statement re arrogance - interpret that how you will, all I was trying to say was who the hell is anyone to claim that God doesn't exist - surely it's sensible to take an agnostic stance - as we all are pretty much in a state of ignorance - so much to learn as theres so much we don't know.

In an infinite universe are we (mankind) in a position to say we know it all? I'm a fan of science - I've read a lot of dawkins and applaud his brain but disagree with him on some fundamental levels - can we reduce everything to the propagation of the selfish gene? [/quote]What I'm essentially saying above is that in order to have a truly scientific approach to the biggest question there is "Is there a God" A person has to have an open mind as both stances (belief / disbelief) are possible. Re an invisible friend, although I actually love that phrase I feel that if there is a God he / it is manifest right here in this world - As a recovering Irish catholic you can safely assume that I'm not religious in the slightest, nor do I have the remotest desire to believe any old bull****. Like most other people I'm in pursuit of the truth. I try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater all the same.

[boagie]

Andykelly,

My point is that, any fantasy that one might make up has just the same crediablity. This site has become flooded with believers who want to babble aimlessly about the possiablity of the imaginary friend. Frankly it is dragging site quickly down. I do not think the intention of this site was to carry the word of god, but to focus on philosophy.

[andykelly]

I give up - you clearly havn't read what I've written

I'll try one last time
my stance re a God is I believe the jury is still out - and that goes for both sides of the argument.
I'm not a brainwashed 4 year old who still believes in goblins and santa etc. I'm 41 - with a great deal of life experience. I already told you I'm not a bible basher. As for dragging the forum down huh?!?!?! The little I've posted is pro debate, not total refutal (without reading exactly whats been said)

[boagie]

Originally Posted by andykelly

I give up - you clearly havn't read what I've written

I'll try one last time
my stance re a God is I believe the jury is still out - and that goes for both sides of the argument.
I'm not a brainwashed 4 year old who still believes in goblins and santa etc. I'm 41 - with a great deal of life experience. I already told you I'm not a bible basher. As for dragging the forum down huh?!?!?! The little I've posted is pro debate, not total refutal (without reading exactly whats been said)

Those comments were not directed at you, but face the fact, if I made up a brief mythology about a superior being that watch over me and showed himself to me when no one else was around, its the old non-falsifiable rule, just as it would not be science, it is not good reason, and not good reason to consider it seriously.