Distribution of Fear in Christianity

[Justin]

Wow, interesting thread. It's nice that we can discuss issues such as this without beating each other up over it. Thank you both for the insightful dialogs.

[avatar6v7]

Originally Posted by Justin

Wow, interesting thread. It's nice that we can discuss issues such as this without beating each other up over it. Thank you both for the insightful dialogs.

I'm not a crazy person!
I have posed many of the questions and acussations that people level at christianity and religion in general to myself, and I welcome any and all debate on the subject.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Justin

Wow, interesting thread. It's nice that we can discuss issues such as this without beating each other up over it. Thank you both for the insightful dialogs.

What are your thoughts on this Justin?


I'm not the type to general get worked up about this sort of thing because that would be admitting that I felt more correct about something than someone and since I don't see how I could possibly BE correct, I can't say that they are wrong so much as I can show flaws in their logic.

[avatar6v7]

Originally Posted by Icon

Always take the fence down but be ready to deal with the consequences.

I understand your point about the buildings. The question comes to how dangerous it is to let others have a chance to cling to it. This is not my choice and this is strictly hypothetical as this society could never happen.

what do you mean by 'cling.' Traditions have value to society, preserving it and keeping it flourishing. Handled correctly they can be the basis for positive change.

[Icon]

But I am not discussing a gradual change. I am talking about an immediate change into an age of reason and logic. Society would no longer have meaning or value. All that would matter is the achievement of our peak. The progression to our best limits. An infinite progression as our limits will progress as we push them.

[avatar6v7]

Originally Posted by Icon

But I am not discussing a gradual change. I am talking about an immediate change into an age of reason and logic. Society would no longer have meaning or value. All that would matter is the achievement of our peak. The progression to our best limits. An infinite progression as our limits will progress as we push them.

progress how? also what do you have instead of a society? What is the acheivment?

[Solace]

This reply is in direct response to the thread opener. My apologies if I say something that has already been stated. I fully intend to go back and read the other posts in this thread, but I wanted to reply to the opener while this is fresh in my head.

There is one simple reason why Christians look forward to a Revelations-like end of the world, and the reason isn't fear (fear is why they believe in the first place), it's doubt. Those Christians long for God (Jesus, w/e) to come down and say, "See, these Christians had it right all along, so Ha!" If Christians are afraid of anything, it's of being proven wrong, or, at least, not being proven right during their lifetimes.

They feel an all-encompassing need to have their faith validated. Because, quite frankly, most of them are tired of God, Christianity, Christ, church, the Bible and everything that is affiliated with such. So they have a dire craving to justify why they chose to adhere to this thing that they don't even like anymore. They stick with it out of fear for what will happen to them if they give up. Despite what they claim, they are not good people, nor do they want good things. They want to see hellfire and damnation descend upon those who don't agree with them, and it's quite clear by the thoughts stated in the thread opener (and in plenty of other Christian literature) that they have a divisive "us and them" mentality.

Doubt and fear walk hand in hand. And just about every Christian I talk to is obsessed with them. You cannot possibly hope to good while your head is full of worries about evil. And that is the Christian dillemma.

[avatar6v7]

Originally Posted by Solace

This reply is in direct response to the thread opener. My apologies if I say something that has already been stated. I fully intend to go back and read the other posts in this thread, but I wanted to reply to the opener while this is fresh in my head.

There is one simple reason why Christians look forward to a Revelations-like end of the world, and the reason isn't fear (fear is why they believe in the first place), it's doubt. Those Christians long for God (Jesus, w/e) to come down and say, "See, these Christians had it right all along, so Ha!" If Christians are afraid of anything, it's of being proven wrong, or, at least, not being proven right during their lifetimes.

They feel an all-encompassing need to have their faith validated. Because, quite frankly, most of them are tired of God, Christianity, Christ, church, the Bible and everything that is affiliated with such. So they have a dire craving to justify why they chose to adhere to this thing that they don't even like anymore. They stick with it out of fear for what will happen to them if they give up. Despite what they claim, they are not good people, nor do they want good things. They want to see hellfire and damnation descend upon those who don't agree with them, and it's quite clear by the thoughts stated in the thread opener (and in plenty of other Christian literature) that they have a divisive "us and them" mentality.

Doubt and fear walk hand in hand. And just about every Christian I talk to is obsessed with them. You cannot possibly hope to good while your head is full of worries about evil. And that is the Christian dillemma.

Thanks for graciousness of your opening, but I must say I am dissapointed in the huge generalisation and massive ignorance displayed below it. I chose my faith, questioned it and came to it because of entirely positive reasons I can assure. (though some atheists make me glad I'm a christian(though to be fair some christians make me wish they were atheists)) Again this is because of the corrupt nature of the church in much of America. In England we have far less of this problem, though there is a rising minority of fundamentalists that deeply worrys me(not that I'm fueled by it.) However you have to recognise that even in the US the church has done positive things. For instance it was from the pulpit that Martin Luther King led the civil rights movement. Surely a faith fueled by hope and a determination to make the world a better place. My kind of faith.

[Solace]

Yes, there have been positive messages preached from the pulpit. But we're speaking specifically about those Christians (and there are a great many of them) who are obsessed with end-time prophesy. I know I made a huge generalization, but it just happens to be a generalization that an astounding amount of Christians fall into. And although it may be ignorant of me to claim that all such doom-sayers do so out of doubt, when you get right down to the psychology of their testimony, doubt plays a fundamental role.

Now let me be clear, I do not call myself Christian, because I would not associate myself to those who take his name in vain, but I do have faith in God and Christ and teachings of the Bible. And I see nothing good in fostering fear, doubt or hate of any kind, no matter what label does or does not apply to you.

[NeitherExtreme]

Originally Posted by Icon

In a society that is not conflicted by silly ideas like religion, faith, greed and mysticism we would easily work towards common goals.

How do you equate religion, faith and mysticism with greed? They are not the same thing. You're going to have to make some good arguments to prove (1) religion/faith/mysticism and greed are inseperable, and (2) that removing religion/faith/mysticism will remove greed. Otherwise I think the rest of your argument fall apart.

Also, I'd like to ask... what do we expect to get out of this conversation? I think all of us here agree that obsesion with dooms-day prophesy is not helpfull, and often harmful. So, assuming we all agree on that point, what are we trying to figure out? Their motives, or how to stop them, or just sharing common frustrations, or what?