Atheism

[xris]

Atheists should not define their disbelief by stating their disbelief in any particular god because he can be defined in so many ways...It gets bogged down in christians trying to defend their god when he might look nothing like their god..As an agnostic atheist and im not quite that either... all i know for certain there is no benevolent god but there could be a creative force..but its faith based on my own views..... so what the hell am i??

[Icon]

I think that we are almost in the same boat on this one.

[jgweed]

There are (at the very least) two different Atheistic camps, and this distinction seems important.

There are, in the most strict and historical sense, Atheists whose doctrine it is that God cannot or does not exist. There are, on the other hand, Atheists whose doctrine it is that none of the actual religious doctrines are true, and consequently reject those various conceptions of god for a myriad of reasons. The latter share a "family resemblance" to some Agnostic positions.

There is also a "middle way" which argues that whether God exists or not is of no importance, as one chooses one values from other sources, or at least not exclusively from religious sources.

[Icon]

Now see, I don't believe that any god can exist in the way that theists view him/her/it. IF god exists, it is much more likely to be quantum event or even an advanced form of consciousness. I cannot see it as a conscious being who keeps track of my every action. It seems to me that a being of that sort would have much more important actions to concentrate on. Besides, the chances of a being creating everything from nothing seems rather impossible and explaining it through magic and mysticism just enforces that for me. I was excited to find out that magic was fake when I was a kid because that meant that anyone could do it.

[Didymos Thomas]

Originally Posted by kennethamy

It is an attempt to prove that you ought to believe in God whether or not God exists. Whether God exists, it is supposed, cannot be known. I agree with the criticism that it gives no direction for what god to believe in, and, after all, if you make the wrong choice, then you ought not to believe in the God, since down you go!

Actually, Pascal's Wager says a great deal about God. There is the assumption that disbelief in God is a guaranteed ticket to Hell (the existence of Hell apart from Earth is another theological assumption). Pascal's Wager doesn't give direction as to which God to believe, it assumes there is only one God that can be believed.

That's another fundamental problem with the Wager. We can use the same argument for a variety of Gods from a variety of traditions - so the whole thing falls apart.

Originally Posted by Icon

Now see, I don't believe that any god can exist in the way that theists view him/her/it. IF god exists, it is much more likely to be quantum event or even an advanced form of consciousness. I cannot see it as a conscious being who keeps track of my every action. It seems to me that a being of that sort would have much more important actions to concentrate on. Besides, the chances of a being creating everything from nothing seems rather impossible and explaining it through magic and mysticism just enforces that for me. I was excited to find out that magic was fake when I was a kid because that meant that anyone could do it.

Do you see the possibility for a theist to believe in a God that matches your hypothetical projections of what God would be?

[xris]

Originally Posted by Icon

Now see, I don't believe that any god can exist in the way that theists view him/her/it. IF god exists, it is much more likely to be quantum event or even an advanced form of consciousness. I cannot see it as a conscious being who keeps track of my every action. It seems to me that a being of that sort would have much more important actions to concentrate on. Besides, the chances of a being creating everything from nothing seems rather impossible and explaining it through magic and mysticism just enforces that for me. I was excited to find out that magic was fake when I was a kid because that meant that anyone could do it.

my feelings exactly...but we dont claim it to be true just possible..

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Do you see the possibility for a theist to believe in a God that matches your hypothetical projections of what God would be?

I don't know. I have yet to meet one that was not offended by my theories. I suppose it is possible or, at least, I don't want to say it is impossible.

[Didymos Thomas]

If it is possible, then, perhaps you can believe that God can exist as at least some theists see God.

[Icon]

That's true. Until I meet them, however, I will continue to think as I do. I am a big fan of not knowing. It is the first step to finding out.

[jknilinux]

Aedes-
Sorry, I still don't see how an atheist can be non-nihilist. You can say meaning and hope come from us, but according to atheists, aren't we just products of chance, whose only goal is survival and reproduction? How can there be meaning in that? If you're atheist, then any and all work we do for the common good just forestalls the species' inevitable extinction... Or, we live forever as 2,000 lb slugs addicted to entertainment... etc... So, in any of these cases, why not have a religion?

Khethil-
That's interesting, I never heard those arguments before.

1: I'm thinking on this one.

2: Well, it's different from keeping garlic in your pocket because:
a: The big one: if Garlic charms don't work, you can spend your time better on something else. If religion is false, then there's nothing better you could spend your time on that has any consequence anyway.
b: Garlic charms can be easily disproven, religion cannot.
c: Garlic charms do not cause infinite happiness if they work.

Kennethamy-
When I said "reasonable religions", I was not referring to Catholicism, or any of it's derivative denominations.

IMO, this is a misunderstanding a lot of atheists have- that all christians are catholics, which works out nicely for them because catholicism is so self-contradictory and makes so little sense.

Icon-
I don't agree with arguments stating "If God really wants... Then why does He ...? "
For example: "If God really wants us to be happy, then why does he harm us?", or
"If God really wants intelligent people, then why does he send people who are brainwashed from childhood to heaven and send moral scientists to hell?". Most, if not all, of these are problems with Catholicism and other not-so-reasonable religions. Also, we don't know the purpose of existence, only He does, so you can bet we're missing something, and we know too little to make such decisions.