Faith or Facts

[boagie]

Originally Posted by ciceronianus

"The only Emperor is the Emperor of ice cream."

Cireronianus,

Only in the sense of the latin meaning of the term------lol!!No I believe it was, the intimations of the Sanskrit meaning was it not?

[Rose]

Originally Posted by boagie

Rose,

Actually its is problematic to term what most people would call being open minded with the term faith, I do get your meaning, but it is an unfortunate way to express it.

Oh ****! Back to school for me!

[boagie]

Originally Posted by Rose

Oh ****! Back to school for me!

Rose,

Not at all, if you do not mind the term being taken in the religious sense. Personally I do not identify with that particular group, so perhaps it is my own sensitivities.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Binyamin Tsadik

Faith is more like trust than beleif.

Pretty much exactly what I am saying.

In relative terms, faith is like Theory where as belief is like..... blindly throwing yourself off of a cliff and hoping "God" catches you.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by boagie

Rose,

Not at all, if you do not mind the term being taken in the religious sense. Personally I do not identify with that particular group, so perhaps it is my own sensitivities.

I'm not religious either.

And I don't care how it's taken by others.

If they are meant to understand what I'm saying then they will. If not, they can take it any way they want.

[Joe]

Faith- the belief in something without facts?

Fact-Something that can be proved with common logic and scientific method?


If these are the definitions of these two words, it seems that each word is held with higher meaning for different individuals based on the definition. I think that is understandable but close minded or maybe even a one sided statement no matter what, because even if god all of a sudden appeared to us and made his existence known beyond all doubt, these words would hold the same meaning, except maybe their importance or relevance would switch.

my opinion is neither. or to explain it better, i try to group these words in my head and distort them until they kind of come from the same place.

[Khethil]

Hrmm

Faith ("... firm belief in something for which there is no proof") is borne of some perceived need or hope. As such, it's part of what I like to term the Human Heart. It's precious, it's laudable, it reaches for hope, it's individual and subjective. A good thing - but not to be confused with a fact. Faith doesn't give us knowledge; nor is it intended to.

Facts ("... a piece of information presented as having objective reality"), or what we can reasonably call 'facts' help us to understand the way things 'are'. This is part of what I like to term the Human Mind; or the intellect. Facts may give us information, but they don't provide hope, motivation or joy; nor are they intended to.

Each concept serves two distinctly different functions and each plays its own, distinct part. I have faith, as do we all, in those things were sufficient evidence doesn't exist, but that's not to say that it hasn't any purpose or doesn't give us something good. Often times it's those things in which people hold faith that give us insight into the human mind; much moreso than facts. It is in this way that faith is most revealing and most valuable.

The problem comes in when folks use Faith as Fact. Now, we need to step lightly here: What constitutes "fact" can be debated and disputed into oblivion (e.g., is it credible? is it rational? repeatable? consistent?). The critical thinker wants to carefully scrutinize what's called a fact.

I'd say this: Asking "Faith" or "Fact" is like asking "Tea" or "Pizza"... each serves its own right, as long as one isn't confused for the other. Woe to the snacker who tries to drink a slice of Double-Cheese and Pepperoni

Thanks

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Khethil

Hrmm

Faith ("... firm belief in something for which there is no proof") is borne of some perceived need or hope. As such, it's part of what I like to term the Human Heart. It's precious, it's laudable, it reaches for hope, it's individual and subjective. A good thing - but not to be confused with a fact. Faith doesn't give us knowledge; nor is it intended to.

Facts ("... a piece of information presented as having objective reality"), or what we can reasonably call 'facts' help us to understand the way things 'are'. This is part of what I like to term the Human Mind; or the intellect. Facts may give us information, but they don't provide hope, motivation or joy; nor are they intended to.

Each concept serves two distinctly different functions and each plays its own, distinct part. I have faith, as do we all, in those things were sufficient evidence doesn't exist, but that's not to say that it hasn't any purpose or doesn't give us something good. Often times it's those things in which people hold faith that give us insight into the human mind; much moreso than facts. It is in this way that faith is most revealing and most valuable.

The problem comes in when folks use Faith as Fact. Now, we need to step lightly here: What constitutes "fact" can be debated and disputed into oblivion (e.g., is it credible? is it rational? repeatable? consistent?). The critical thinker wants to carefully scrutinize what's called a fact.

I'd say this: Asking "Faith" or "Fact" is like asking "Tea" or "Pizza"... each serves its own right, as long as one isn't confused for the other. Woe to the snacker who tries to drink a slice of Double-Cheese and Pepperoni

Thanks

The definition of these words seems to have distracted us from the original question so I will bring it back. The amazing thing about language is that it is subjective to the context. We are in the Philosophy of Religion section which means that we must look at the terms from that perspective.

Faith - belief in a diety or natural power which holds power of the universe

Fact - Scientific evaluation leading to conclusion about the universe we live.

Thse are loose definitions but the approximate context of the words in this situation. Getting in a battle over symantics is rather silly when you consider the source. Language is innadequate so we have to be careful how we approach the subject. Always take context into consideration as it can completely change the definition.

Example cited: Would you like a slice of the pie?

When talking food, this is a question about injesting a pie
When talking money, this is a question about getting your part of the total value
When talking the opposite sex, this is an innuendo for intercourse
When talking statistics, this is representing a chart of some sort.
When talking math, this is a question about an infinite number sequence
The situation can and DOES change the definition.

[boagie]

Rose,

I hope that does not apply to all your statements.






"Faith is trying to believe what you know ain't true."

[Rose]

No. I was just feeling a bit crabby.

Thanks for your wonderful support and encouragement.