Faith or Facts

[Whoever]

Originally Posted by boagie

Whoever. What atheistic religions?

I was thinking of Buddhism and Taoism in particular.

[ciceronianus]

I believe in science and religion. Prove to me, MITech, that I cannot believe in both.

[boagie]

Originally Posted by ciceronianus

I believe in science and religion. Prove to me, MITech, that I cannot believe in both.

ciceronianus,

Seeing as there is no necessary connection between truth and belief one can believe whatever one choses to. The popular form of organized superstition, organized religion is proof positive of that. The wonders that science is unfolding before us across the board, leads many scientests to become mystics. I think that only means that they are in awe and experiencing the sublime at the things they ponder.

[Icon]

Well, let me say this. Faith is something you have because you have evidence towards an idea but not fully supporting it. Faith and belief are very different.

You have faith in someone when they have proven themselves time and time again but you believe in someone before you know if they are truly capable.

When an idea or "fact" is coming to fruition, it is not something that just happens. It takes a great deal of time and effort into proving an idea to be fact. Thus, one must have faith that they are on the right path until the path proves fruitful or fruitless.

So as faith and fact are different, faith is a tool used to help achieve.

[boagie]

Icon,

In the presence of knowledge there is no need of faith, indeed the way the term is most often used by the faithful, it is wishful thinking, lord help me, help me in my disbelief!! May my imaginary friend substain me!! " Faith is believing what you know ain't so!"

[Icon]

And I suppose greed is a hinderance to progress?

All that man has and all that man has defined is a tool. I use faith to re-enforce my logic until I can conclude that I am correct or incorrect. The amazing thing about faith is that it can, like all things, change as we need it to.


That being said, I am strictly empirical by nature. I do not believe or have faith in anything which I cannot witness over and over again.

[ciceronianus]

Originally Posted by boagie

ciceronianus,

Seeing as there is no necessary connection between truth and belief one can believe whatever one choses to. The popular form of organized superstition, organized religion is proof positive of that. The wonders that science is unfolding before us across the board, leads many scientests to become mystics. I think that only means that they are in awe and experiencing the sublime at the things they ponder.

Yes, I was being rather silly.

I am not a scientist, but am among those who find the universe, and the possibility of other universes, so amazing that I am inclined to believe in God, rather as the stoics did, with some modifications.

I would never claim I have proof establishing the validity of that belief. But I find myself annoyed by the view sometimes taken by the nonreligious that only "facts" matter, and that statements not completely based on "facts" have no meaning.

[boagie]

ciceronianus,

Perhaps you could give an example? Everyone at sometime or another speculates about possiablities, those speculations generally begin with an empirical foundation however.

[ciceronianus]

Originally Posted by boagie

ciceronianus,

Perhaps you could give an example? Everyone at sometime or another speculates about possiablities, those speculations generally begin with an empirical foundation however.

"The only Emperor is the Emperor of ice cream."

[Binyamin Tsadik]

Originally Posted by Icon

Well, let me say this. Faith is something you have because you have evidence towards an idea but not fully supporting it. Faith and belief are very different.

You have faith in someone when they have proven themselves time and time again but you believe in someone before you know if they are truly capable.

When an idea or "fact" is coming to fruition, it is not something that just happens. It takes a great deal of time and effort into proving an idea to be fact. Thus, one must have faith that they are on the right path until the path proves fruitful or fruitless.

So as faith and fact are different, faith is a tool used to help achieve.

Faith is more like trust than beleif.