A critique of the misconceptions of eternality and God

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Master Pangloss

I wouldn't say that theology and philosophy are entirely separate. If anything, I would say that theology is the slave or the prisoner of philosophy.

Hmmm... I think that theology is simply philosophy within the doctrinal limits of a religion.

Actually existentialism encompesses virtually every branch of philosophy.

Logic? Epistemology? Aesthetics? Ontology? I don't know, I think existentialists make reference to this and that, but these areas just don't seem to be important areas of existential study or emphasis. Even metaphysics -- the only metaphysics addressed by existentialism is the pretext that existence underlies all essence, and that there is no absolute meaning.

[Zetetic11235]

No discernable meaning unless you invent one, that is. When you become totally skeptic, and reduce everything to absurdity, you see that we are all really lost, fundamentally, and we are like sysifus, working superficially, but never getting any closer to some ultimate goal. The questions of great import, such as what our ultimate purpose is or rather if we even have one, lie at the wayside as we push our little rocks along to no real ends. Its ultimate conclusion, in my opinion, is that all that we really have is fellowship with others and our experience in this world. I find it most entertaining and fullfilling to look at the world as a puzzle, and embrace my reasoning abilities as best I can to make the ride a bit more interesting and to help those with whom I have a fellowship: Other Humans.

[Didymos Thomas]

Hmmm... I think that theology is simply philosophy within the doctrinal limits of a religion.

Then how does theology break those doctrinal limits?

[Aedes]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Then how does theology break those doctrinal limits?

Isn't that one of the outputs from theology?

[boagie]

The tick of time shuts out eternity, for eturnity has nothing to do with time. A meditation on the Hindu dance of Shiva, the dance of the universe is excellent for the above realization. Shiva, The destroyer, one of the three major divinities in the later Hindu pantheon. Eturnity you might say, is the ever present moment. "I have become death, destroyer of worlds." This, this is time.

[kennethamy]

Originally Posted by boagie

The tick of time shuts out eternity, for eturnity has nothing to do with time. A meditation on the Hindu dance of Shiva, the dance of the universe is excellent for the above realization. Shiva, The destroyer, one of the three major divinities in the later Hindu pantheon. Eturnity you might say, is the ever present moment. "I have become death, destroyer of worlds." This, this is time.

It is? Is that the way I can tell whether I should have lunch?

[Zetetic11235]

Main Entry: 1time Pronunciation: \ˈtīm\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English tīma; akin to Old Norse tīmi time, Old English tīd — more at tide Date: before 12th century 1 a: the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues : duration b: a nonspatial continuum that is measured in terms of events which succeed one another from past through present to future c: leisure <time for reading>2: the point or period when something occurs : occasion3 a: an appointed, fixed, or customary moment or hour for something to happen, begin, or end <arrived ahead of time> b: an opportune or suitable moment <decided it was time to retire> —often used in the phrase about time<about time for a change>4 a: a historical period : age b: a division of geologic chronology c: conditions at present or at some specified period —usually used in plural <times are hard><move with the times> d: the present time <issues of the time>5 a: lifetime b: a period of apprenticeship c: a term of military service d: a prison sentence6: season <very hot for this time of year>7 a: rate of speed : tempo b: the grouping of the beats of music : rhythm8 a: a moment, hour, day, or year as indicated by a clock or calendar <what time is it> b: any of various systems (as sidereal or solar) of reckoning time9 a: one of a series of recurring instances or repeated actions <you've been told many times> bplural (1): added or accumulated quantities or instances <five times greater> (2): equal fractional parts of which an indicated number equal a comparatively greater quantity <seven times smaller> <three times closer> c: turn <three times at bat>10: finite as contrasted with infinite duration11: a person's experience during a specified period or on a particular occasion <a good time> <a hard time>12 a: the hours or days required to be occupied by one's work <make up time> <on company time> b: an hourly pay rate <straight time> c: wages paid at discharge or resignation <pick up your time and get out>13 a: the playing time of a game b: time-out 114: a period during which something is used or available for use <computer time>

Main Entry: 1eter·nal Pronunciation: \i-ˈtər-nəl\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity — more at aye Date: 14th century 1 a: having infinite duration : everlasting <eternal damnation> b: of or relating to eternity c: characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? — Mark 10:17(Revised Standard Version)>2 a: continued without intermission : perpetual <an eternal flame> b: seemingly endless <eternal delays>3archaic : infernal <some eternal villain…devised this slander — Shakespeare>4: valid or existing at all times : timeless <eternal verities>
—

It seems that eternal is a product of bidirectional induction with respect to time. Time, looking foreward and backward with no end is eternity.

[Master Pangloss]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

You made the statement that historically eternity makes no claim to an infinite past. I disagree on the grounds that I laid out in my post. I know you were not referring exclusively to God or Souls, but when history speaks of eternity, it refers to God. As I said, Christianity was a major influence on the ideas of history, and thus Christian ideas influenced the concept of eternity throughout history.
...You repeatedly requested peoples thoughts on the subject. Next time maybe you should be a little more clear on what type of thoughts you are looking for.

de Silentio - You are quite right on both points. It is difficult to separate these concepts from the idea of God. And I apologize for being vague on the subject. I actually regret bringing it up.

Originally Posted by Zetetic11235

You are quite right about the number of god proofs in this forum, but I don't see how this is a problem you should be concerned with. They choose to remain ignorant when so many threads and posts are availabe to them. Don't exacerbate the problem by posting in these threads if you don't find the discussion worthy.

Zetetic - I don't know about you, but I believe it is our responsibility as thinkers to combat ignorance. I don't buy the idea that we should simply let it go by unargued. To not concern myself would be an injustice in my view. In reference to your comments about my own posts in these "God proof" threads, my posts have all been precisely to the point that such a line of dialog is ultimately fruitless. So there is no inconsistency on my part here.

[Didymos Thomas]

Isn't that one of the outputs from theology?

Yes, doctrine comes from theology. So theology cannot be philosophy within doctrinal limits as theology establishes those doctrinal limits, and breaks them to establish new doctrine.

[Master Pangloss]

Originally Posted by Aedes

Logic? Epistemology? Aesthetics? Ontology? I don't know, I think existentialists make reference to this and that, but these areas just don't seem to be important areas of existential study or emphasis. Even metaphysics -- the only metaphysics addressed by existentialism is the pretext that existence underlies all essence, and that there is no absolute meaning.

Existentialism is squarely centered in ontology, which is a branch of metaphysics. The question of being was Heidegger’s starting point for his Being and Time and for the greater part of his entire philosophy. Sartre wrote all 800 or so pages of his Being and Nothingness on this subject. Moreover, the very starting point of modern existentialism is the Cartesian statement “I think, therefore I am,” which is solely an epistemological concept. And the existentialist theory of ethics is based on the idea that ethics is primarily an aesthetic project. As for logic, well you have me there, but existentialism, as with all philosophy, must make use of logic for its arguments. Regardless, I would like to see a forum for something which would encompass its very unique principles.