Political Change: In Context

[Deftil]

Yea I think politics will still be politics. Unfortunately I don't see that changing.... ever. It's still a change in terms of some specific policies. It's still a change in that we elected our first african-american president. But in terms of a fundamental "politics" change...... no. It's more like changing a diaper. At first it's nice and clean but you know before too long it will be full of sh*t, just like all the ones that came before it.

[Khethil]

Well, thanks for replying all.

It helps me put my own feelings (on the election results) into context. Yea, I do think there's real reason for hope, and reassert that the the results do represent an expressed need for change. Where this brings us, or what it nets us is quite another question.

But as many of you have deftly pointed out, Politics is still Politics; and where our leaders still exist in the same framework, that framework will continue to influence their decisions.

Thanks again

[BrightNoon]

Originally Posted by Didymos Thomas

Obama represents an immense change. We have an African American president-elect in the US. It's strange; I remember sitting at my friend's home watching the election results come in and then it hit me that fifty years ago a lynching could have been going on instead. That's a long way we've come.

Heart warming, but it dosen't pay the bills. The fact that Obama won on his 'change' platform proves that American's hate the current system and that they do not understand why they hate it, as he is more of the same. People are dumb; this is a democracy; I'm very pessimistic.

[Joe]

Two people representing millions. Since you have to go on what they say, all that you can do is hope the one you vote for does what you want to happen. As for change, its what people want. Its what they should want. it happens to be on the table as a topic at this point in our country. All these factors make the game interesting, but whether its a good four years or a disappointment for the general population, Change in politics is a must, for the sake of elimination by process. Unfortunately the past is forgotten and never learned from. i think mostly because of smaller details that make the new situations seem like their different from the old.

[Dewey]

The speculations in this thread about Obama in his new job vary except in one regard. Note these extracts:


“Sure McCain is a politician, and nobody, and I mean nobody, likes politicians.”

“Yea I think politics will still be politics. Unfortunately I don't see that changing.... ever.”

“But as many of you have deftly pointed out, Politics is still Politics; and where our leaders still exist in the same framework, that framework will continue to influence their decisions.”

“The fact that Obama won on his 'change' platform proves that American's hate the current system and that they do not understand why they hate it, as he is more of the same.”

“Since you have to go on what they say, all that you can do is hope the one you vote for does what you want to happen.”

“All we did was vote for the other group of greedy, power hungry, lying group of crooks.”


Regardless of our individual political beliefs, we Americans uniformly disrespect and distrust our politicians. The typical politician, as some one has said, is presumed to be venal, self-seeking, hypocritical, mendacious, and demagogic. I think that presumption is wrong and that it is a major cause of our political malaise.

I doubt that anyone could, as I have done, read about, watch and listen to politicians for many years and fail to appreciate the knowledge, skill, and dedication that nearly all of them possess

Who are we, we citizens, to put ourselves so far above our public servants, to condemn their every imperfection, mistake, or misdoing, and to absolve ourselves of all responsibility for their actions? Why do we denounce their practices and promises even as we demand benefits only for ourselves?
Where does the buck really stop in our democracy? It stops with the voter, of course. It’s highfalutin to say, I realize, but still true that we are the masters of our destiny. We will respect ourselves more if we respect our politicians. Then the politicians will not lose their self-respect and we will not suffer the consequences of their loss of self-respect. It as simple as that.

Why don’t we try win-win politics for a change?

[markyr]

Originally Posted by Khethil

PRIOR: About four years ago, on a cold morning in Washington State, my wife and I went out to vote. We were angry, but hopeful, having watched in horror as the pain of 911 was taken and used to falsely justify slaughtering a people and toppling a regime, we were going to make a difference and show that our people had a conscience. Later that night, my faith in the morality of the people of the United States fell - a wound tore open when we realized that George W. Bush, Jr. had been re-elected. It's been very dark since then and that wound's not closed; and after having given 20 years of my life to a people who seemingly cared not a whim for any semblance of right and wrong, I've been hurt and (I'm afraid to say) ashamed.

PERCEIVED SHIFT: Last night, I saw my people embrace something different; real positivism, compassion, a desire to put greed in check and bring what's left of our traumatized sons and daughters home. I saw people happy, I saw an overwhelming voice that said, "No More!" by embracing a new leader whose youth, idealism and unashamed compassion is almost unparalleled in our nation's history. Can I be proud of this decision? Is there a chance that; perhaps, we found that moral center as a whole?

QUESTION: In an age where apathy, negativity, consumerism and resentment has typified this country on the world-scene, does this elections' result represent a need for change? Is this a shift towards a desire to embrace something better? Or is it perhaps simpler; being simply a republican backlash or an ethnic issue?

I'm curious how others place this election's results in context. I suppose history and events - as they unfold - will tell. But as philosophers I'd like to hear your thoughts. I'm especially curious to hear from those of you coming from outside the U.S., who are not prejudiced by party-affiliation.

Thanks

Great post - I believe it is as simple as this.

We must start to gather all the clever, left-wing people together. We can do this now because of the internet. The rest is inevitable.

Tell me I'm wrong.

My name is Mark btw!

[markyr]

Originally Posted by Dewey

The speculations in this thread about Obama in his new job vary except in one regard. Note these extracts:


“Sure McCain is a politician, and nobody, and I mean nobody, likes politicians.”

“Yea I think politics will still be politics. Unfortunately I don't see that changing.... ever.”

“But as many of you have deftly pointed out, Politics is still Politics; and where our leaders still exist in the same framework, that framework will continue to influence their decisions.”

“The fact that Obama won on his 'change' platform proves that American's hate the current system and that they do not understand why they hate it, as he is more of the same.”

“Since you have to go on what they say, all that you can do is hope the one you vote for does what you want to happen.”

“All we did was vote for the other group of greedy, power hungry, lying group of crooks.”


Regardless of our individual political beliefs, we Americans uniformly disrespect and distrust our politicians. The typical politician, as some one has said, is presumed to be venal, self-seeking, hypocritical, mendacious, and demagogic. I think that presumption is wrong and that it is a major cause of our political malaise.

I doubt that anyone could, as I have done, read about, watch and listen to politicians for many years and fail to appreciate the knowledge, skill, and dedication that nearly all of them possess

Who are we, we citizens, to put ourselves so far above our public servants, to condemn their every imperfection, mistake, or misdoing, and to absolve ourselves of all responsibility for their actions? Why do we denounce their practices and promises even as we demand benefits only for ourselves?
Where does the buck really stop in our democracy? It stops with the voter, of course. It’s highfalutin to say, I realize, but still true that we are the masters of our destiny. We will respect ourselves more if we respect our politicians. Then the politicians will not lose their self-respect and we will not suffer the consequences of their loss of self-respect. It as simple as that.

Why don’t we try win-win politics for a change?

Absolutely - zero-sum or win-win. I know which I'd vote for!

How do we get MORE people talking about this. The more the better surely?

[Khethil]

Originally Posted by markyr

Great post - I believe it is as simple as this.
We must start to gather all the clever, left-wing people together. We can do this now because of the internet. The rest is inevitable.
My name is Mark btw!

Right on! Thanks.

I'm Warren, by the by.

[markyr]

Originally Posted by Khethil

Right on! Thanks.

I'm Warren, by the by.

Hi Warren,

Good to meet you.

Will you help me please?

RedIssue Forums

BTW - this is serious (ish). I mean there are huge problems to sort out but no reason why we can't have some fun sorting them out.

[markyr]

Originally Posted by Khethil

Right on! Thanks.

I'm Warren, by the by.

Oh, and please just ponder this for a while:

If we were able to model the earths problems in a computer and we programmed it to advise us to either:

a) Continue along the current path
b) Enable swift positive change

I think very firmly it would be b)