World Nation or many nations?

[Binyamin Tsadik]

Kethil,

We hit a language barrier here.

Because you are American, you have a different understanding of what a Nation truely is. America cannot really be considered a Nation in the true sense of the word. It is more of a Rebel colony that formed into a country.

If you ever manage to go to India or China you will understand what a Nation is.

A Nation is a distinct people in a distinct land with a distinct culture, history and language.

Although America has all of those things it is closer to Rome. It is a Nation that adopts the cultures of the Nations that are around it.

There is a great line from the Movie The Incredibles
(Although I don't watch so many movies, this was a good one)

If everyone is special, then no one is

If there is no distinct land then the Nations will disperse and so will their cultures, and languages, and dress, and there will end up being one boring nation.

Peace is between two nations, if there is only one nation then it can never really find peace with another.

[MITech]

I think that culture will not be unified. There is still peace to be found within oneself. You are thinking to narrowly here. Yes, oneself does not matter in this type of society we see today because we rely so heavily to complete a simple task on other people. We should look to battling our own minds for ingenuityand also to keep us going as a unified nation if such a thing were to come into existence.

[Holiday20310401]

I agree, peace is a subjective art that must be mastered before death. Hopefully a world nation will be the result of realizing the trifling nature of objectivity(ies) such as war compared to the intrinsic value of mastering the mind as needed.

[Binyamin Tsadik]

What about those that like their nation and refuse to be a part of your world nation?

Like me.

[urangutan]

Binyamin Tsadik, I think I would disagree with your description of America and it being less than a nation. All the diversity that it has uptaken, has I believe helped to shape similar traits that the Nations that pre-dated Columbus, would find as similar. It may be represented in different fields of life but it is still none the less close to being very tribal. Nations like India and China especially, changed dramatically with each new empire. A great many aspects are still the same today, I agree but the blurb of a book is not the whole story.

[William]

Originally Posted by Binyamin Tsadik

What about those that like their nation and refuse to be a part of your world nation?

Like me.

Simple, we will continue to kill each other.

William

[William]

Bin's comment:

"If there is no distinct land then the Nations will disperse and so will their cultures, and languages, and dress, and there will end up being one boring nation"

Bin, the first statement is an absolute absurdity. "Boring"? To who? How could you possibly make such a statement? World peace has never existed and it hasn’t simply because of the rationalization you have just made as you determine in your mind what is best for other people. I realize you are saying this because it "sound’s altruistic", but we both know it is not. It is that sad rationalization that keeps people oppressed as they are forced to live in squaller, misery and poverty, yet you call it culture, language and dress. . America is rift with such rhetoric as it defend’s "ethnic purity" as we invite immigrants, in the name of freedom, to come over an clean our toilets, pick our crops, clean our homes and serve our food for a compensation that is below the poverty level. Yeah, I’ve had heard this rhetoric before and it makes me literally ill. Yeah, let’s not disturb their culture, language or dress and allow them to disperse. Let’s keep them "locked away" in that "third world" paradise so they can live in peace and harmony. Yes, I realize these are serious problems and will not be solved easily, but you effort to find admiral justification for them as if you knew what the live’s they endure entail.

"Peace is between two nations, if there is only one nation then it can never really find peace with another".

The second makes absolutely no sense at all. If there is "only one nation state" we wouldn’t have worry about being at peace nor war with another, would we? We would work together and share what the Earth has to offer. That’s never been tried. Heaven forbid. Hmmm?!

Sorry, if it seems I am "attacking" you. Yes, I guess I am in a way because our thinking is so at opposite end’s in our attempt to define "human nature". I look at the human being and visualize what he can be; and you look at the human being and capitalize on what he is forced to become. I still can’t get over your "dog" analogy. That will take some time. Bear with me my young, (assuming your youth) trained friend. Hopefully one day you will see through my eyes.

William

[Binyamin Tsadik]

urangutanNever said America was less than a Nation. It's a country, but it's not a nation. It's hard for someone who was born in America to understand what a Nation really is, because you hear it every day in your "national pledge" and in your "National Anthem."
And America is part of an organization called the "United Nations".
You may even argue that America is a "New" Nation.
A nation is something that runs far deeper than ideals or common land and government.

But lets leave this for a minute and discuss what William is going on about.

William, the greatest respect you can have for anything, is wanting that entity to be itself. As soon as you try to change any entity, you are disrespecting it. If I truely loved you, I would want you to be the best William you can be. I wouldnt try to change you, or make you grow in the direction that I want for you, but I would help you to grow in the direction that is best for William.

If you truely respect India, you would help it be India. You would encourage it to be India and not what you think a nation should be. You call it third world, without even truely understanding it. Many African cultures lived perfectly fine, fetching water every day from the well until so called "first world" countries began sticking their noses in.
SummyF brought StarTreck as an example. Have you ever heard of the prime directive?
Because Guns were introduced into Africa before running water, their entire culture has been flipped upside down.
People that thought they were superior to the Africans, came in and took their diamonds and gold and took them as slaves. This is not respect.

Pure respect for a Nation or Culture is allowing that Nation to be itself, and not trying to force it to be something else.
Your claims of a Multi-Cultural nation is true for one generation, or two generations, but once the great grandchildren are born and their parents have intermarried, what is left of culture for the child? What is left of National identity?

My wife wants to use the computer so I will end it here.

And William, I will never see things like you, because I am me. And that should be respected.

[William]

Originally Posted by Binyamin Tsadik

And William, I will never see things like you, because I am me. And that should be respected.

No, my friend, it doesn't have to be respected. You could be a serial killer because that is "you". Should I respect that? I think not. Just because one thinks like they do, is not a "carte blanc" reason to respect how they think. Not by a long shot. It sounds good though. I'll give you that.

William

[boagie]

Blind nationalism has been the result of this kind of mentality in the past, a call to blind nationalism, my country right or wrong, is a call to relinquish ones humanity.