The Bible As A Closed System

[Irishcop]

As for me, I have not had a problem with the concept of Christianity being a system as it clearly is. I had misgivings about the Bible being a system.
However, that was not a defensive knee-jerk. It simply was an initial disagreement in definition.
I only took exception when I was openly misinterpreted, presumed to be ignorant and openly insulted. But I can give as good as I get, then get on fine.

[boagie]

Originally Posted by Irishcop

As for me, I have not had a problem with the concept of Christianity being a system as it clearly is. I had misgivings about the Bible being a system.
However, that was not a defensive knee-jerk. It simply was an initial disagreement in definition.
I only took exception when I was openly misinterpreted, presumed to be ignorant and openly insulted. But I can give as good as I get, then get on fine.

Irishcop.

So Irish,what are your thoughts on whether these things are closed systems,open systems or systems of some other nature.What makes me suspect that the bible is a closed system is it has not absorbed any new scientific knowledge of the past two thousand years.Science should not be surprized that the bible/Christianity does not embrace evolutionary biology.I assume here as well that the institution of Christianity is of the same nature,one being the theory followed by the method of Christianity.This is relatively new ground to most people,although general systems theory has been around quite some time,it does not seem to have become yet a household word.

[Katherine]

Originally Posted by Aristoddler

If the bible were an open system, wouldn't it be open to interpretation?
The commandments were written in stone, not papyrus.
There doesn't seem to be much in the way of negotiations with a force who has already flooded the Earth, rained fire on cities, created the plagues of Egypt, and declared Armageddon on the planet.


I think that people who try to negotiate, or otherwise alter the wording of the bible...are trying to justify their own needs over what has been set out for them by the teachings of the bible.
If I tell my son that he will lose dessert if he misbehaves at the table, and then he cries when the punishment is due to be paid; too bad, he knew the consequences, and no amount of negotiation or justification is going to change my mind. If he tries to tell me that what I said has loopholes, then he's going to be sorely disappointed when he gets punished on top of it all for disrespecting me.

Awesome post. The entire premise of the Bible is that there is an Ultimate Authority and that Authority has an opinion and is willing and able to act on it. Those who adhere to its teachings (ideally) do so to align themselves with what it says. There is no room to align it with our ideology or judge it based on trendy morality.

[boagie]

Katherine,

The subject of the thread is of the nature of systems and what type of systems are said bible and/or the institution of Christiainity,if you wish to discuss something of a different nature please do so in another thread.

[Katherine]

Boagie,

It was a statement affirming that the Bible is indeed a closed system, not influenced by anything outside of itself (with the exception of things that would go entirely too deep and off topic for our discussion purposes here). A discussion regarding the Bible or Christianity or God is entirely ridiculous without some understanding of the subjects themself. That's when I interject.

I truly do not mean to threaten you so much.

[boagie]

Originally Posted by Katherine

Boagie,

It was a statement affirming that the Bible is indeed a closed system, not influenced by anything outside of itself (with the exception of things that would go entirely too deep and off topic for our discussion purposes here). A discussion regarding the Bible or Christianity or God is entirely ridiculous without some understanding of the subjects themself. That's when I interject.

I truly do not mean to threaten you so much.

Katherine,

Yes indeed, you are on topic,it is wonderful to hear a Christian admit it is a closed system.No a dialogue about the bible,christianity and god as functional entites/as systems or parts thereof is not rediculous.It is perhaps forbidden to believers, but there is no such restriction to others.So it is off topic to get into the merits of the bible,Christianity and/or god.In a more detail study one might consider these things in reguards the quality of its functions,as often things are defined by their function/s.Actually these things would have commonalities with other belief systems,and it would be interesting to see what Christianity has in common with other closed systems.Sorry if I read you wrong,perhaps we could start again? What I am saying is,this is to be an objective look at the bible/Christianity as a system,I do not think a believer can be objective-------am I wrong?

[Katherine]

I wonder if an athiest can be objective. If one has already deciced that there is not a Creator, I would claim the most rational conclusion is that there is one, can you really be objective about world around you without this understanding?

We all know the main flaw with the scientific method is the preconceptions the one observing the process already holds. I would think that would be a disadvantage no matter which side of the discussion you find yourself.

[boagie]

Originally Posted by Katherine

I wonder if an athiest can be objective. If one has already deciced that there is not a Creator, I would claim the most rational conclusion is that there is one, can you really be objective about world around you without this understanding?

We all know the main flaw with the scientific method is the preconceptions the one observing the process already holds. I would think that would be a disadvantage no matter which side of the discussion you find yourself.

Katherine,

Are you signing off then? Katherine,being open to the wonder is a little different than delusional pretense,in fact it rather closes that door of wonder does not.You have the answers to the origin of all things don't you,there is really nothing to wonder about,this big daddy figure has it all wrapped up.Tell me Katherine, what other beliefs do you have about things which are entirely unfounded,do you believe in ghosts,visitors from another planet,there are very passionate texts written about these things,but no evidence in their support.

You are right if you are inferring that there is no such thing as complete objectivity,and with this particular topic it seems near impossiable for the faithful to take part without emotional termoil.The topic is, what kind of system might the bible and/or Christianity fall under.With more difficulty then is reasonable we have come to the conclusion that said subjects are indeed systems,the bible being a closed system,is then Christianity a closed system? The flow of information with the bible is one way,it has not incorporated any new knowledge in the last two thousand years.It is I think, a closed system.

[Katherine]

Why would you say that?

[boagie]

Originally Posted by Katherine

Why would you say that?

Katherine,

Because you made it sound like an irrational quest.Actually the topic at hand is more straight forward then is appreciated,general systems theory is real science and I do not believe there is anything which is not a system of one sort or another.The goal here has been simple,what form of system do these things fall under.I stated earlier I had no wish to discuss the merits of the bible or Christianity,I just want to know what kind of systems are these things and perhaps learn something about their functions.