Philosophy in School!

[urangutan]

Great Theaetetus but you are making my arguement more than than you think. Algebra is a problem because they are taught wrong from the start. If you think about what I am saying, it isn't to arrest the concept of teaching philosophy to high school students but to teach the children from the start in a more appropriate manner. Teach them so that algebra is not so difficult to grasp, science is not a scary monster, etc...etc... and you will find that philosophically, students will be better pupils. From this it would not matter what you offered in curriculum, the students would not have a fear or any missconceptions about thinking that it is a bludge subect that "jocks" think they will breaze.

All I see you arguing is just another limit placed on real education that must begin long before high school comes to a close.

[Theaetetus]

Originally Posted by urangutan

Great Theaetetus but you are making my arguement more than than you think. Algebra is a problem because they are taught wrong from the start. If you think about what I am saying, it isn't to arrest the concept of teaching philosophy to high school students but to teach the children from the start in a more appropriate manner. Teach them so that algebra is not so difficult to grasp, science is not a scary monster, etc...etc... and you will find that philosophically, students will be better pupils. From this it would not matter what you offered in curriculum, the students would not have a fear or any missconceptions about thinking that it is a bludge subect that "jocks" think they will breaze.

All I see you arguing is just another limit placed on real education that must begin long before high school comes to a close.

I see what you are saying now. I totally agree that we should start student young. Much like how the founding fathers are often introduced to American children with role playing etc, so could Socrates, Plato, etc.

This is the major problem with the fine arts and social sciences. They are introduce far too late in an academic setting for the intrinsic desire to learn a child possesses to trigger.

[urangutan]

Yes and it is the mindset that gets developed first, so we cannot afford to waste time in early years trying to program thought in the minds of the children but encourging it instead.

Sorry I needed to add, that it isn't the role of Plato or Socrates or any other philosopher to be added to the curriculum, just simply add the formation of ideas. Don't make the mistake of finding another program that follows through with Descartes in their fourth year of school. It isn't about introducing them to such works but being able to explain to them in their terms, what such people like Aristotle expressed to you.

[clearthought]

There definitely should be philosophy courses in high school. They can be applied to everyday life (e.g. rhetoric and logic) as well as advanced understanding. If we can have classes on sports medicine and the anatomy of crayfish, why not one of the largest fields of human knowledge: philosophy? In addition, I find it amazing that we don't have mandatory politics or civics courses so people actually know how their government works and what they can do.

[urangutan]

No offence Clearthought, it is still a case of the blind leading the blind. They should be applied to almost everyday school life from the begining. What you are promoting is nothing more than an elitism with thought, where it should be an elitism in thought.

[Theaetetus]

Not too long ago, civics was required to graduate high school for many people. Most people like myself took it in 9th grade and it taught the concepts behind government and citizenship. No Child Left Behind killed the requirement.

[de Silentio]

Originally Posted by clearthought

If we can have classes on sports medicine and the anatomy of crayfish, why not one of the largest fields of human knowledge: philosophy?

The long and short of it is that most High School students are not ready for the higher level thinking that Philosophy proper requires. Trust me, I've done philosophy lectures and exercises in multiple High School classrooms.

Every year I do a lecture and/or exercise on Plato in a World History class. The first year I did it, I was surprised by the number of students who just didn't care what I had to say. The next few years I tried to make my time with them more interesting, but overall they still didn't care.

Apparently Platonic Forms has nothing to do with Friday night's football game. Seriously though, it's hard for a High School student to relate to philosophical ideas because their frame of mind isn't geared in that direction yet. Most students don't realize the joys of knowledge until College.

[Theaetetus]

Originally Posted by de Silentio

The long and short of it is that most High School students are not ready for the higher level thinking that Philosophy proper requires. Trust me, I've done philosophy lectures and exercises in multiple High School classrooms.

The only reason for this is because students are trained to be little more than automatons. If they were taught the basics as younger children they would be prepared for the higher level of thinking necessary.

Originally Posted by de Silentio

Every year I do a lecture and/or exercise on Plato in a World History class. The first year I did it, I was surprised by the number of students who just didn't care what I had to say. The next few years I tried to make my time with them more interesting, but overall they still didn't care.

That is because students are trained to not care what teachers have to say. The tests are more important as they count for something. They are trained accountability matters not their attention and interesting.

Originally Posted by de Silentio

Apparently Platonic Forms has nothing to do with Friday night's football game. Seriously though, it's hard for a High School student to relate to philosophical ideas because their frame of mind isn't geared in that direction yet. Most students don't realize the joys of knowledge until College.

If a child's intrinsic desire to learn was taken advantage of, more students may actually care more about Platonic Forms than a football game. Most children are pushed towards sports at a young age, thus their lifelong love of spending large amounts of time absorbing commercials during sporting events.

[Holiday20310401]

Originally Posted by Theaetetus

Not too long ago, civics was required to graduate high school for many people. Most people like myself took it in 9th grade and it taught the concepts behind government and citizenship. No Child Left Behind killed the requirement.

Actually, where I live, we require a 3 month civics course in grade ten. It wasn't much though. In fact it was more of a laugh. Students didn't know who the prime minister was.

Everybody knew Bush though.

And I agree that because the mindset is made early in the student's life that such social sciences and 'practical' courses should be taught early. Though I still have no clue what I want to do when I grow up.

[clearthought]

Originally Posted by urangutan

No offence Clearthought, it is still a case of the blind leading the blind. They should be applied to almost everyday school life from the begining. What you are promoting is nothing more than an elitism with thought, where it should be an elitism in thought.

Hmm? Are you preposing we teach this subject matter before high school? Explain.